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Therumbler    [30869.   Posted 3-Feb-2016 Wed 16:53]
  Youtube`s DMCA system troubles hit a prominent group of creators:

They got it fixed after waiting 3 weeks but only after making a video complaining about. The official means didn`t work at all, and they still don`t understand why:

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30868.   Posted 2-Feb-2016 Tue 12:48]
  I am off travelling for a few days so updates may become a bit sporadic for that time.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30867.   Posted 24-Jan-2016 Sun 10:45]
  Thanks Sabreman, I will add a correction

Sabreman64    [30866.   Posted 23-Jan-2016 Sat 09:37]
  A few days ago you reported on Penthouse ending its print edition. Penthouse is not ending its print edition:

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30865.   Posted 13-Jan-2016 Wed 14:22]
  Hi prm2007

The site isn`t blocked by ee. I haven`t spotted anything about the site for years, but I`ll see if Google has anything

prm2007    [30864.   Posted 13-Jan-2016 Wed 09:07] is being blocked by almost all UK ISPs

It is the biggest adult porn pics site
Further details at:

I don`t see any news about this anywhere, but you may wish to check.

Therumbler    [30863.   Posted 9-Jan-2016 Sat 16:38]

Twitter accused of undermining ideological opponents.

sergio    [30862.   Posted 1-Jan-2016 Fri 06:30]
  Yasmin Alibhai-Brown is a Ugandan-born British journalist and author, who describes herself as a "leftie liberal, anti-racist, feminist ..."

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30861.   Posted 31-Dec-2015 Thu 08:10]
Happy New Year to you all, and a speedy drying out to those in the north wet.

phantom    [30860.   Posted 30-Dec-2015 Wed 13:05]
  A happy new year to you all from a wet north of England.
First time in a while that I`ve been on here since the great flood.
I`m even having to type this on my mobile.

So forgive me if this post isn`t very organised.

Safe to say, Harvey, I think you`re wrong. :P

Have a good one folks. :)

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30859.   Posted 25-Dec-2015 Fri 02:37]
  Merry Christmas everybody

braintree    [30858.   Posted 23-Dec-2015 Wed 15:11]
  The Bluray remains unlisted om Amazon UK. Even the product link in my official order goes to a dead page

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30857.   Posted 22-Dec-2015 Tue 16:07]
The theory that 88 Film just got ahead of themselves a bit seems to be the most plausible I`ve heard, so I`ll go along with it.

braintree    [30856.   Posted 20-Dec-2015 Sun 14:50]
  I follow 88films on a couple of forums and they always intend to release the uncut versions of films ( with a couple of exceptions that include animal cruelty) and they always said in the months leading up to Nightmare that it would be as complete as the US Code Red version. I think they are aware that if they release any movies where longer versions are available elsewhere they might as well not bother with that title. Nightmare was delayed a couple of times already - but that`s a standard thing with pretty much every 88films release. I don`t think any have ever arrived on the release date first given. Maybe they had the nod it would be uncut but went ahead before official documentation was ready to avoid another delay. The Code Red Bluray of the film has never been listed on Amazon UK despite the dvd being there all the time- although even that`s not there now.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30855.   Posted 19-Dec-2015 Sat 18:35]
  Yes interesting stuff about Nightmares. I wonder if there is the possibility that the 88 Films were originally going to re-release the previous cut version, using the existing BBFC certificate. They then seemed to change their mind when the weasel description of the cut version was spotted and they changed to to the uncut version without thinking about BBFC requirements. When the oversight was spotted after release, the BBFC obligingly did a rush job to help out and get the certificate cleared same day. Just a wild guess.

braintree    [30854.   Posted 19-Dec-2015 Sat 15:36]
  Interesting news about Nightmare. From what I read there was speculation that 88films had not put the film and the Emmanuelle Cannibals film in to the censor but I expected all that happened was that the BBFC site had not been updated. It`s strange the titles are withdrawn as the BBFC site has been updated now. Are they saying that the 88films releases are uncut but the BBFC wanted edits? If that is the case, that fool who runs Code Red in the US will be pleased although he spends most of his time whinging about poor sales while at the same time doing everything he can to stop people having access to his titles ( most of which are crap to be fair)
However , it seems that the BBFC have only just passed the disc as legally compliant so it was made available illegally and too early by 88films but the standard disc that was sold is the same as the one that will be out again soon. Whether 88films have any consequences remains to be seen - perhaps 6 months in prison like the original VHS distributor in the 80`s?

sergio    [30853.   Posted 13-Dec-2015 Sun 03:42]
  Ok, so you go through a proxy

Harvey    [30852.   Posted 6-Dec-2015 Sun 15:14]
  @phantom [30851]

"Why do I have a problem believing that the above is really about recouping tax?"

I`m sure that is all that this is about.

Earlier in the year HMRC made a similar anouncement, that they were targetting people running businesses using ebay, airbnb, paypal, Gumtree, etc. and avoiding taxes.

I don`t think they are going after online escort agencies because they are escort agencies, but because they are online.

BTW, I don`t post often mowadays, but I do check in from time to time. You will know my specific interest is in challenging legislation which criminalises harmless activities of minorities and it`s been a bit quiet on that front lately.

Too quiet??

phantom    [30851.   Posted 4-Dec-2015 Fri 17:36]
  BBC: `Strippers told to reveal all about tax to HMRC`

Why do I have a problem believing that the above is really about recouping tax?

Well, after we`ve witnessed EU regulation for online television being used as a means by which to obliterate UK porn production, I would say people have plenty of reason to be cynical about such announcements.

This looks once again like an indirect way of clamping down on vice by the authorities.

So, at a time when government is facing increasing public complaints about multinational conglomerates not paying tax in the UK, they decide that their priority is going to be the enforcement of taxation on strippers?
How many people are gullible enough to believe that?

And a 5 billion pound industry? Based on what figures?

Hyped numbers, menacing sounding officialdom and a disguised moral cause, all combined with an anecdote about a convicted benefits cheat?
I believe I hear a bandwagon rumbling down the road...

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30850.   Posted 2-Dec-2015 Wed 11:37]
  Many thanks Braintree. I am just adding your note to the listing. It will be published later tonight.

braintree    [30849.   Posted 1-Dec-2015 Tue 14:58]
  Just a quick note to say that while the new 88films release of Nightmares in a Damaged Brain is uncut for the gore content there are a few brief non gore moments included in an earlier VHS release that are missing from both the 88films Bluray aswell as the US Code Red disc although some of those missing seconds have been restored by 88films - just not all of them.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30848.   Posted 1-Dec-2015 Tue 01:16]

Isn`t it ludicrous how much money is being wasted paying expensive professionals to go carefully vet every single second of video material. Vast amounts could easily be self certificated by the distributor, eg porn, kids stuff and TV material.

TV material is a particular example. What`s the point of vetting something that has already passed strict controls and has already been shown to a vast amount more viewers than on DVD.

With most material being viewed on the TV and internet, where realistically, parents and kids have to be pragmatic about watching material with a higher age rating.

What`s the point of spending all that money getting perfect ratings, when it reflects such a small proportion of viewed content, and where self certification is going to be right 999 times out of a 1000 anyway?

sergio    [30847.   Posted 30-Nov-2015 Mon 05:00]
  So, the BBFC are non-profit. Therefore what they charge is correct, otherwise they would be making a ton of profit.
If the BBFC reduce their fees then ... ?

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30846.   Posted 29-Nov-2015 Sun 15:09]
  Re avoiding a fast forward on paint drying.

I suggest a dirgesome soundtrack with just a couple of songs that have lyrics that are 12/15 rated.

How about a 14 hour looped 10 green bottles

phantom    [30845.   Posted 29-Nov-2015 Sun 14:56]
  braintree [30844]
Not necessarily.
Perhaps some of the fun will be getting them to prove that they`ve actually done the work - or else be guilty of fraud.

braintree    [30844.   Posted 29-Nov-2015 Sun 14:14]
  If the paint drying video does go into the BBFC the person submitting would be best advised to ensure there is some additional material within it.Perhaps some almost subliminal hardcore stills or similar.If they don`t the BBFC won`t watch it all the way through and they certainly won`t watch it properly. They`ll take the money and laugh all the way to the bank

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30843.   Posted 29-Nov-2015 Sun 01:42]
  Re watching paint dry.

And don`t forget the idea has also generated a fair amount of publicity. There are plenty more people now aware of the futility of state mandated censorship of even the most innocuous material.

phantom    [30842.   Posted 28-Nov-2015 Sat 15:33]
  sergio [30841]

Well, personally I sympathise with the project.
Sometimes there is little one can do but ridicule the system with the few tools one has to hand.

One is reminded of Vaclav Hazel, the Czech dissident and later president.
He contended that the people were being treated like children by the communist regime, so he and his followers took to the sandpit and built sandcastles. This of course meant that the state security men which were watching everything also had to spy on him building sandcastles.
Did it overthrow the eastern bloc? No.
But he made what little point he could within a system against which he was powerless.

It`s the same with the BBFC. They are a monstrous entity which is simply foisted upon us. With every political force in the UK subscribed to maintaining this incompetent, censorious institution, what can one do?

Will it end the reign of the BBFC over the UK?
You are right. It will not.
But does it allow people to make what little point they can? Yes.

Vaclav Hazel would understand. It`s building sandcastles.
You want to treat us like morons and insist on pre-viewing everything to assure our minds do not melt. You insist on infantilising us.
Alright, do your duty. - Watch 14 hours of paint drying.

The voice of the powerless must sometimes take bizarre routes to make a protest. In that regard this paint drying film project continues that long tradition.

sergio    [30841.   Posted 28-Nov-2015 Sat 14:35]
  I don`t understand this. Why would someone pay the BBFC to classify a 10hr movie about paint drying?

Let`s bore them to death? Let`s highlight the absolute insanity of the censorship process?
Let`s clog up the system, poke the bicycle wheel with our rod of stupidity?

I see it as the first step to bringing down the wall of the BBFC.
Or maybe not.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30840.   Posted 28-Nov-2015 Sat 03:04]
  An interesting thought phantom. It would apply equally to other areas of censorship too. I guess that prison costs a lot more than accommodation, I guess a few fair of those sent to prison (and their families) end up on benefits for life

phantom    [30839.   Posted 27-Nov-2015 Fri 16:49]
  re: dangerous tweets

Very interesting figures there.
5 folks a day convicted for `internet insult`.

And 155 custodial sentences at an average of 2.2 months.

Now, the figure for the cost of a prison place ranges from £45,000 to £60,000 per annum, depending on source and method of calculation.

So for sake of ease, let`s take £50,000.

155 x 2.2 : 12 x 50,000 = £1,420,833.33
So the policy is currently costing ca. 1.5 million pounds per year in prison sentences alone.
That is without ever calculating the other costs...

And we`re running a deficit, are we? :)

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30838.   Posted 26-Nov-2015 Thu 15:02]
  Pooch re [30837]

I stand corrected. I looked up `banned` in the dictionary and it is indeed defined as an `official or legal prohibition` ...and there I was thinking I could speak English.

I do use the word in wider context such as my wife `bans` me from going down the pub...but I see that implies the irony that my wife makes the law.

But saying that, when the 3 cinemas formally publish rules, these then could be said to be their official rules...So they could still be said to ban religious advertising according to their official rules.

Pooch    [30837.   Posted 26-Nov-2015 Thu 06:38]
  r.e. Post 30836:

Sorry Dave, I`m going to have to politely disagree. Vue, Cineworld and Odeon have always had a policy on not allowing any religious or political ads to be shown in their cinemas, for many years. I know this, because I`ve worked with these chains in the past.

The fact is, that the ad is not banned. It can still be shown elsewhere. It simply cannot be shown in those three, specific cinema chains. That said, this kind of thing should have been checked by the Church Of England, before they created the ad, to make sure that the ad was going to be able to be shown in cinemas, in the first place.

It`s their fault that they`ve created an ad that can`t be shown in certain chains! These cinemas, like any business, can dictate any rules/restrictions they wish to do so, as long as those rules don`t break the law. As their rules don`t break any laws (because the rule applies to any/all religions/political movements equally) then the Church Of England can`t really complain that they`ve created an ad that doesn`t fit in with guidelines for three of the UK`s biggest cinema chains.

I`m sorry, but the ad has not been banned, in any definition of the word! It`s simply not suitable to be shown in those three chains. But it absolutely has not been banned!

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30836.   Posted 25-Nov-2015 Wed 06:44]

Well it is banned from being shown at Vue, Odeon, and Cineworld. True it is not in any sense banned by the state or by law, but it has been banned by the cinemas involved... up to them though.

I reckon `banned` is a general purpose English word and can be used as English speakers feel fit.

Pooch    [30835.   Posted 25-Nov-2015 Wed 06:02]
  For what it`s worth, the Church Of England cinema ad that features the Lord`s Prayer has not, and isn`t banned.

The three cinema chains, Vue, Odeon, and Cineworld simply have a strict policy on advertising that states "We do not accept any advertising from any religious or political organisations, for any reasons whatsoever"!

Other cinema chains, are free to show the ad, if they so wish. And as that is the case, then the ad can not be classified as "banned"!

phantom    [30834.   Posted 24-Nov-2015 Tue 16:05]
  Charlie Drake banned???? On Ozzie radio?
Are they out of their minds?
He`s comedy royalty.

At what point did the use of comedy stereotype become racist?
After all, we all know it`s a stereotype.
There is not a single nasty sentiment within a Charlie Drake skit.
Frankly, seeing Charlie Drake as nasty borders on psychosis.

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you, the inimitable Charlie Drake:
My Boomerang won`t come back:
Please, Mr Custer

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30833.   Posted 24-Nov-2015 Tue 06:15]
  BBFC announce that its current deputy director, David Austin, will take over as director when David Cooke leaves in March next year

Phantom. Yes I agree. I think it is fair to summarise that cinemas don`t want religious advertising because it simply causes too much trouble.

TV have similarly banned religious advertising years, way before political correctness took hold. I think this ban was more based on not wanting to police religious fund raising.

phantom    [30832.   Posted 23-Nov-2015 Mon 14:25]
  I see, the Daily Mail went into full `outrage mode` over the Church of England`s Lord`s prayer ad being banned.
You could not really make this up. Folks really do not like a taste of their own medicine, do they?

To my mind the focus on the advertisement `causing offence` is entirely the wrong one.
From what I heard, the cinema advertisement distribution company who had refused the ad did so, not for fear the ad might offend, but because they saw a legal trap opening up before them.

Simply put, if they were to accept this Church of England ad they would not be in a position to turn down other religious ads without being accused of (legally actionable) religious discrimination.
If they accepted the Church of England, then how to say `no` to the Church of Scientology? How to say `no` to the Catholic Church, Orthodox Christians, Muslims, Jews, Methodists, Buddhists, Hindus, Zoroastrians, etc, etc...?

Meanwhile, how much fun would it be for the cinema going public to watch ten minutes of diverse religious broadcasting prior to seeing the movie?

Of course they were absolutely right to turn down this ad. But not because they allegedly bowed to a militant Muslim lobby, fearing the ad would cause offence. They simply knew that accepting this ad would unleash an avalanche of Ian Paisley style religious rants and images of aborted foetuses on an audience which simply just wanted to watch the latest Bond movie.

phantom    [30831.   Posted 22-Nov-2015 Sun 12:24]
  My heart bleeds.
An advert produced by one of the main supporters of censorship in the UK has been censored.
Somehow they don`t seem to get the irony of it, do they?

braintree    [30830.   Posted 13-Nov-2015 Fri 16:10]
  Has anyone actually been prosecuted for possession of the type of material the Dangerous Pictures Act was originally created for? As far as I am aware, all the prosecutions have been for material that some busybodies decided to add to the act for no reason except their own. And have any prosecutions for the DPA been as a direct result of a police investigation for the offences? Or have they all been side offences where people being investigated for other crimes had the misfortune to have some material on their phone or computer that Britain no longer allows that the police just happened to find? Britain seems to be a unique country run by moron politicians who like to blame the inadequacies of some people on media content and feel the need to try and ban it regardless of the fact that the material banned in each decade since the 50`s is now laughable,has never been proven to actually disturb anyone and much of it is now available to teenagers legally. The desire to offer a lazy easy reason for something is so ingrained in British society that the fools who make the laws are too stupid to learn from history.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30829.   Posted 13-Nov-2015 Fri 04:24]
  Re the BBC

I cannot really work out why the BBC is under so much attack from the government. There is no way that any other organisation will feed politically correct news straight from government press releases to so many people as the BBC does.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30828.   Posted 13-Nov-2015 Fri 04:19]

I had a read of most of the murder trial coverage. I`m not sure that the porn angle provides much focus for campaigners as the offending material has recently been banned anyway. I`m not sure what the campaigners would be calling for. Maybe most likely perhaps is foreign website blocking.

phantom    [30827.   Posted 11-Nov-2015 Wed 13:51]
  re: no shocks

So some bloke called Alex Dyke thought something and said so?

He could have said that he thought the BBC to be the `best broadcaster in the world`. (A phrase often heard from the BBC, I might add.)
He could have said that he thought that the BBC is an equal opportunities employer and not at all an institution mired in self-evident nepotism. (ever wondered how Dan Snow and David Dimbleby got their jobs?)

The above would have been the right sort of things to say.

But dear Alex Dyke (is his surname even permitted to be spoken aloud on the BBC?) said the wrong thing. Or was it that he thought the wrong thing? Who knows?
He said he thought public breastfeeding was unnatural.
Apparently, this puts him on a par with holocaust deniers.

Ominously, Alex D*** is now scheduled to attend "further compliance training".
Could there be anything that sounds more illiberal than `compliance training`?
I bet the good old DDR under Erich Honnecker had such a thing as compliance training programmes.

As things go, I think the BBC is pretty much dying before our eyes.
But not, as they would have it, due to funding shortages. No, simply because the whole structure is rotting from within.

Therumbler    [30826.   Posted 11-Nov-2015 Wed 13:43]
  The conviction of Nathan Matthews for the murder of Becky Watts is no doubt going to inspire numerous anti-pornography types, as we have seen in the past with films and videogames.

phantom    [30825.   Posted 5-Nov-2015 Thu 09:12]
  Dave, it`s not so much the vetting agency we need to worry about.
(Although that`s another can of worms!)

Far more, it`s the hackers at their next visit to TalkTalk (or any other ISP for that matter) that can really screw things up for people in Mr Cameron`s future Britain.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30824.   Posted 5-Nov-2015 Thu 01:12]
  Interesting stuff phantom.

I am waiting to spot a few things in the bill but haven`t noticed anything in the press coverage so far. One of the key issues is how searchable the ISP data records are. Previous incarnation sf the Snooper`s Charter had the ISPs providing an SQL like interface so that the snooper`s effectively had a searchable central database (albeit a bit slow).

Also has anyone spotted if the vetting agency has access to the data? I`d hate to be a teacher if the vetting agency was noting my visits to the likes of PornTube.

phantom    [30823.   Posted 4-Nov-2015 Wed 15:39]
  Hm, unusually for a BBC piece, the page I provide a link to below seems to have been altered substantially.
Who knows, perhaps someone at the BBC realised that in their original piece they were taking propaganda too far...
Mind, it still seems much too kindly. But at least they`ve reduced some of the crawling sycophancy of the original article.

phantom    [30822.   Posted 3-Nov-2015 Tue 20:32]

The one, two, three on how to be a loyal, cowed broadcaster:

Just look how the section ends, titled:
`Analysis by Dominic Casciani, BBC home affairs correspondent`.

"Critics will call this a snooper`s charter - but security chiefs and police say they`re not interested in your online shopping habits - only the habits of serious threats to society.
And they say this legislation is long overdue - and has the backing of three major reports in the last year that broadly agreed that there should be no safe space online for criminals."

You know how the BBC always go on about how they show balance?
Well, look at it.

"Critics will call this a snooper`s charter - "
That is the some total of the `balance`.
The rest of the entire paragraph - and the last word within the analysis - is given over to Mrs May`s people.

It`s a perfect example of how not to do journalism.
That said, the BBC have been scraping the bottom of the journalistic barrel for some time now.

phantom    [30821.   Posted 2-Nov-2015 Mon 18:25]
  Interesting link, Dave.
Very interesting how councils should be permitted to access our web history in order to `help detect crime`.
You see, there was I thinking it was the police`s job to detect crime.
Whereas it now seems to be the job of Mrs Jones in booth 3 at the council planning office.

What is bizarre is that nobody sees fit to tell us why councils and God-only-knows-what public bodies ought to have these powers. What possible use can a municipal council have for anyone`s web browsing history? It beggars belief.

Last time councils were handed surveillance powers it didn`t end well. Surveillance powers were used against dog fouling and in school placement cases.

What is also of considerable interest is that MPs will be exempt from this new surveillance law, it seems.
So too will journalists (to protect their sources).
This means that the people voting on this in parliament will all be exempted.
So too will those people in the press who are in a position to damage said parliamentarians with media coverage. What a coincidence.
What`s the saying? One law for them and one for us?
Well, here it is literally the case. The law will only affect us, not them.
The hypocrisy is quite staggering.

When it comes to combatting terrorism or paedophilia, etc, I cannot really see how this law adds anything. By asking a judge for permission the security services can already check all this information. Why must they be able to do this supposedly `preliminary check` of seeing what websites one has visited without asking a judge for permission?
Surely this only is of use if they seek to investigate people who are not actually suspects.
After all, if someone is a legitimate suspect there would be no problem obtaining permission from a judge. Therefore, all this enables is police fishing (i.e. mass surveillance of people who are not suspects).

Meanwhile, if not fishing, what is the purpose of the law, other than to create a deliberate chilling effect?
By law you are perfectly entitled to visit if you so wish. But how many will think twice about it, if they fear that their wife`s best friend who works part time at the municipal refuse collection agency will, with the click of a mouse, be able to ascertain that they have done so.
It thus seems to me that one of the clear purposes of this law is to stifle perfectly legal activity – by fear.

Fishing and chilling. I cannot see any other use for this law.
Can anyone else?

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30820.   Posted 2-Nov-2015 Mon 02:39]

Good points. All we will need is a few magistrates with a rubber stamp and then any Tom, Dick or Harry will be able to read our browsing histories

phantom    [30819.   Posted 1-Nov-2015 Sun 14:01]
  Well, the snoopers charter has hit the BBC headlines today.
The spin is of course a positive one.
Home Secretary Teresa May (whose nigh pathological bitterness more than likely stems from not being as attractive as the former page 3 girl of the same name) is announcing to the world that the police only want powers to check every website you`ve visited, not which web page on those websites.
That of course is a massive difference. Isn`t it?

Well, it means that the authorities will be able to ascertain that you are a subscriber to but won`t be able to check on which buxom models you favour.
That makes everything different, doesn`t it?

Of course, it`s only because the police themselves have been asking for these powers.
The politicians don`t want them per se. It`s merely that the law enforcement experts in the security services are saying these powers are necessary.
In short: they need to know who is visiting It`s vital. For national security.

The BBC in its reporting of course does not ask – not even for a moment – why it should be the police lobbying for a law they desire, rather than merely enforcing existing law.
No, ever since Tony Blair, the police are in effect a political body with political ideas of their own.
And – repeat after me – that is not worrying at all.

The great worry for people interested in the melonfarmers angle on things is of course the law on so-called `extreme porn`.
Is there any tool more ideally designed to facilitate police fishing expeditions than this ability to check who has visited which site?
It seems perfectly designed for this precise purpose.

The very thing which makes this law suspect is that Teresa May claims it to be for exceptional purposes, but that it is designed to be used in non-exceptional circumstances.
Whatever the security services may claim, Britain does not have that great a number of terrorists active within its borders that it would be impossible to get authorisation from a judge each time you want to tap a terrorist suspect.
But here is a law designed so the police do not need to ask a judge`s permission, but can simply – on the spur of the moment – check on anybody`s browsing habits.
It is self-evident that this is not a law designed to deal with the exceptional. Far more, it is one designed to enable snooping on the masses.
This is a law created to enable mass surveillance of web browsing habits.

This begs the question, why would the police even want to know what I am doing on the net?
What could they possibly gain from this knowledge?
I am convinced it is entirely for fishing purposes. One wants a means by which to ensnare the thousands who are currently circumventing with impunity many of Britain`s ludicrous laws.
Most of these people would never be suspected, thus cannot be tracked. Their offences are effectively minor misdemeanours, but thanks to some of the hyped moral legislation in UK law these minor breeches can land them in prison.

Of course, this legislation will create a chilling effect like never before.
In an area of law where very few still know with certainty what is legal and what isn`t, the fact that – at any moment – your browsing history could be tapped by police will deter huge numbers from accessing sites they are perfectly entitled to visit by law.

At a time when crime figures are falling – and have been falling for thirty years or more – it is no doubt becoming ever more hard work to keep increasing the prison population.
More and more draconian measures are required for any Home Secretary to prove his or her spurs by showing that yet more `criminals` are being locked up than under his or her predecessor.

This law would suggest the police would have a ready source of `criminals` to arrest permanently on tap. At any given moment, one need only do another search of the browsing database to find oneself some more culprits.

The supreme irony in all this is that it is Teresa May overseeing it all.
Who in 2002 at the Tory party conference warned that the Conservatives had in the eyes of many become `the nasty party`? Yep, you guessed it.
Interesting to see just how she plans to resolve this now that she`s in power, no?
Not by being nicer. No. But by being able to check who visits sites where such things are said.

phantom    [30818.   Posted 29-Oct-2015 Thu 15:45]
  sergio [30817]
Yes, I`m not surprised that David Cameron is a Daily Mail reader.
He never struck me as being a broadsheet reader.
The words they use are too long and complicated, you see...

sergio    [30817.   Posted 29-Oct-2015 Thu 11:57]

sergio    [30816.   Posted 25-Oct-2015 Sun 05:30]

Is the painting/photo they use indecent? Only a judge can judge? Why is the face blocky? Is those bum cleavage lines been cut? Nudity ain`t synonymous with indecency? Where does one get more detail on the judges summing up? Has this mostly been reported by Ovenden, the artist?

phantom    [30815.   Posted 24-Oct-2015 Sat 10:54]
  Harvey {30813}
re: Destroying Art

I know you are pretty much the legal eagle in this area, Harvey.
But in recent years I`ve become pretty cynical about the whole subject.
To my mind law these days is simply made to fit the case, rather than the other way around.

Being accused really seems as good as a conviction.

Do I believe that the infamous Judge Roscoe has a pseudo-political (pun intended) way of talking her way out of this? Yes.

I`m sure she will have some flimsy justification.
Whether it actually stands up to legal scrutiny does not really matter.
Because it will never come to that.

Legal matters of this kind appear to be such affairs these days where the unpopular cause simply does not have a leg to stand on, no matter what right they might have on their side.

The infamous Judge Roscoe no doubt believes herself in safe territory, knowing the pediatrician`s-house-burning mob on her side on this one.
Everything else is irrelevant.

People may ask technical questions but they can be readily ignored.
Winning the argument has become irrelevant.
Backing the popular cause is what matters, irrespective of how low it makes us sink.

sergio    [30814.   Posted 23-Oct-2015 Fri 00:54]
  Audio files? Does atvod/insert present censor, have some sort of power over `audio` files. I am thinking that instead of video previews you`d have audio previews. Audio is tv like, yes?

Harvey    [30813.   Posted 22-Oct-2015 Thu 07:18]
  re: Destroying Art,

It is normal, in cases where people are convicted in cases involving images, that along with any sentence, the court rules that the images, or more usually, the media on which the images are stored, is destroyed.

So what Judge Roscoe has done, is not particularly controversial... provided that the images would actually be illegal for someone to possess.

Hence it is quite important to know which law has been enaged and whether the images do actually fulfil the requirements.

For the paintings, which were derived from photographs, the fact they were so derived does not make them pseudo-photographs. A pseudo-photograph is, specifically, an image which is not a photograph, but appears to be one. Therefore, the paintings should not have been destroyed if they were merely "indecent". They could be destroyed if they fell within the definition of the Cartoon Porn Act and be pornographic and grossly offensive, disgusting or otherwise of an obscene character.

Given the amount of time we spent discussing exactly what those words could mean, it`s probably worthwhile checking whether they have actually been adhered to by Judge Roscoe.

Pooch    [30812.   Posted 22-Oct-2015 Thu 04:54]
  The new Bond film SPECTRE, has been passed with a 12A, but it was sent to the BBFC before for previewing in an unfinished form, and the content was considered likely to be a 15 rating, due to a scene "showing the aftermath of a violent act". Other violent scenes were also recommended to be reduced/toned down, in order for the distributor`s to secure their preferred 12A rating.

When the film was submitted for formal classification, acceptable reductions had been made in these scenes and the film was classified 12A, with a 148 minute running time.

It`ll be interesting to see if this version will be shown elsewhere in the world, or whether the USA gets another version (ala CASINO ROYALE), and also whether a longer, uncut version with a 15 rating, might arrive on UK Blu-Ray and DVD in a few months time.

phantom    [30811.   Posted 19-Oct-2015 Mon 13:46]
  Re: Destroying Art
Let`s just call it the Roscoe Act 2015, shall we? :)

Well, I think largely we`re talking photographs.
But I wonder whether the `paintings` may in fact be manipulated photographs and thus might possibly fall under the photograph clause or that of pseudo porn.
The Independent article talks largely of photographs.

Though I must admit, Harvey, the legal framework under which this vandalism is taking place really is not of that much concern to me.
I`m not that much of a technocrat.

But the fact that a judge has determined that art ought to be destroyed, that just appalls me beyond measure.

To my mind Judge Roscoe cannot hide behind the law. Claiming to merely apply the law of the land, does not hack it. Anyone who soils their hand by participating in this outrage is a vandal - and be they a judge. Claiming that one was only taking orders doe not absolve one of this.

I wonder if the infamous Judge Roscoe is going to have the material destroyed publicly.
You know, on an evening bonfire. Perhaps the BNP and EDL can bring a few standards along. And flags, plenty of flags. An umpah band. Perhaps a few guys in uniforms. Lots of saluting, of course.
And while we`re at it, we can perhaps chuck a few books on the fire as well. No doubt, the infamous Judge Roscoe will tell us which ones...

Harvey    [30810.   Posted 19-Oct-2015 Mon 10:16]
  Re: Destroying Art.

I have been unable to find out what law was used in the destruction of Ovenden`s artwork.

Mention of the word "indecent" in press reports and articles suggest it was the PCA 1978, but that would only apply to the photographs or pseudo-photographs.

For the work which was neither a photograph or an image which appeared to be a photograph, the only available law would be the "Cartoon Porn Act".

Even the OPA does not prohibit obscene material to exist or be in someone`s possession, so I can`t see how that would apply.

Any ideas?

phantom    [30809.   Posted 17-Oct-2015 Sat 17:45]
  Re: Destroying Art

Yet again. Wow.
Art destroyed by judicial decree. What next?
Judge Elizabeth Roscoe has something coming to her, I think. History is not forgiving toward her kind.
It seems the infamous Lucius Mummius is at last reborn.

`Standards of propriety` has a horrible ring to it. It is worthy of a Mummius.

I will say straight out that I despise modern art, which includes `artsy fartsy` photography.
I have no time for all this interpretive rubbish. But that is mere opinion.

I would never dream of agreeing with Judge Roscoe.
To destroy what others deem a work of art is vandalism. Barbarism.

It is the equivalent of pissing in a temple sanctified by a religion in which you do not believe.
What matters is that it is sacred to someone.
To that extent it ought to be granted that minimum of respect. i.e. the right to exist.

Now to make it clear: Just because someone thinks Ovenden`s work is art, does not mean it should be treated as art by everyone. Were we to go down that route, we would end up in the place of not offending Mohammed with cartoons because someone believes in him.
There is always freedom of expression.
Thus, I am free to express my opinion that Ovenden`s supposed art is a heap of crap.
Destruction, however, is not a form of expression.

Nobody ought - ever – to wilfully destroy something which is considered a work of art. Whether they think it one or not.

To my mind, Judge Roscoe – infamous Judge Roscoe, henceforth – has just become such a destroyer of art. It makes no difference whether it`s an Ovenden or a Rembrandt. It is the same thing.

What is ironic is that a judge – a profession keen on insisting that everyone shows it sufficient respect in court (on pain of punishment, no less) – has proved completely incapable of showing any respect to art.

No, it`s a commodity to Judge Roscoe. Interchangeable. Definable. Regulatable. A thing.
Hence the comparison to Mummius suggests itself.

Effectively, modern art photography involving children now depends for its legal status on who owns it.
We have heard of the time a piece got into trouble with police in the north east – until it emerged it was the property of Sir Elton John.
If Ovenden were not the man with a conviction, would this matter ever have troubled the brow of the infamous Judge Roscoe? Of course not.

The material is suspect because it is owned by Ovenden, the convicted paedophile.
Were he still to be Ovenden, the artist free of conviction, this would never have happened.

Could there be a more vacuous state of law? Material is legal or illegal depending on who owns it.
So much to equality before the law.
But worse, material is now considered art, depending on who owns it.

Anyhow, I foretell a great career for the infamous Judge Roscoe.
Ofcom will no doubt be looking for `talent`, now that they intend to do ATVOD`s job.
Or maybe the BBFC may need new leadership....

braintree    [30808.   Posted 17-Oct-2015 Sat 14:46]
  Welcome back Pooch

Pooch    [30807.   Posted 16-Oct-2015 Fri 05:40]
  THE HOBBIT: THE BATTLE OF THE ARMIES - EXTENDED EDITION will be a 15 in the UK. Although the BBFC haven`t classified the extended version of the film yet, several of the extras are already rated at 15, so all Blu-Ray and DVD releases will also be a 15.

THE HOBBIT: THE BATTLE OF THE FIVE ARMIES EXTENDED EDITION - THE LAST STAGE - JULY 26TH, 2013 [Additional Material] (15 - Passed without cuts)


phantom    [30806.   Posted 14-Oct-2015 Wed 18:28]
  I could well imagine that you`re right about ATVOD.
People who act as quasi governmental extortionists may well turn out to have a skeleton or two in the cupboard.

But I`m not sure that the sharing of porn these days goes on purely out of the kindness of folks` hearts.
Many of the download sites do provide financial incentives to those who provide the content for download.

Thus a cottage industry has arisen of folks ripping off sites, then uploading the content for quasi public download.
What at first seemed a fairly innocuous affair by now has grown into quite a beast and is proving nigh on impossible for the pornsters to fight. Not least as the porn producers get little help from law enforcement or politics.
It`s been deemed that they`re fair game, as they are `immoral`.

I go back to the very beginnings of the net, when a certain amount of altruism and laisser faire was part of the spirit.
But much of what you see by now is an organised rip-off on a nigh on industrial scale.

Producers cannot really hope to survive that - as well as the simultaneous assault from regulators and law makers.

I think people have come to view porn as an inevitable part of the net, due to its ubiquity. Many may well be in for a surprise when it starts croaking over the next few years.

What do they say? You don`t realise how you value something, until it`s gone?

Therumbler    [30805.   Posted 14-Oct-2015 Wed 17:06]
  I can`t see Ofcom cancelling the contract without some minister`s approval. There`s probably something foul in the works that will be announced in the next couple of months.

As for porn. It`s a product high in demand but due to regulation and stigma hard to monetise. A curious quirk of capitalism if there ever was.

Another interesting aspect is that people share it (illegally) at all. There`s some risk in sharing it and no guaranteed payback, either in money or porn in exchange. This could be said for piracy as a whole. The taking is obvious, but the giving is altogether a different matter.

phantom    [30804.   Posted 14-Oct-2015 Wed 13:34]

“We are immensely proud of the work ATVOD has done since it was given the job of overseeing a brand new set of regulatory rules for video on demand services in 2010,” said ATVOD Chair Ruth Evans and ATVOD Chief Executive Pete Johnson in a joint statement.

For the above please read. `We are fantastic. We think we have done a marvelous job. So good in fact, we`re being cancelled....`

“We have done this as a co-regulator dedicated to engaging fully with the industry we regulate in order to ensure that consumers enjoy the protections to which they are entitled without the imposition of unnecessary burdens on providers of video on demand services. Under our regulation, the UK video on demand industry has grown strongly and consumer complaints have been dealt with effectively and efficiently.”

Err... `Engaging fully with the industry`? Without the imposition of unnecessary burdens on providers of video on demand services`?
This is a sick joke, right?

Hundreds, if not thousands of UK websites are no more.
How the hell does one square that with those statements?
It appears to me that Ruth Evans and Pete Johnson are to media regulation what Jim Gamble was to policing.

I must say, the gall some people have is quite staggering. These two, together with that evil egghead Sajid Javid, have been the most destructive force in media for the past twenty five years.
Yet listening to them, one would think they had been the most soft-touch, easy-going regulators on the planet.
But then extortion racket running fascists would portray themselves that way, wouldn`t they?
I bet they`ll get hefty golden handshakes...

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30803.   Posted 14-Oct-2015 Wed 01:31]
  The first news item have read confirming the sacking of ATVOD

phantom    [30802.   Posted 13-Oct-2015 Tue 18:51]
  Well, well...
I`m offline for a few days with connection problems and what happens.
ATVOD wobbles and Playboy announces the end of the nude.

As for Playboy, not sure it`s the feminists winning. It may just be what the mag is saying; that internet porn - especially the rise of free, ripped off internet porn - is simply killing them.
I think in that regard the internet is eating itself. When it becomes financially unfeasible to make anything, because five minutes after it is published everything is freely available for download everywhere, it quickly becomes impossible to make any sort of content.
Producers cannot even recoup their costs.
I know I`m sounding like some anti-pirating Hollywood agent here.
But I do think for pornography in particular things have become increasingly impossible online.
Clearly the surge of creativity in that field, which we witnessed some years ago, is over.
For a few years porn was the cultural phenomenon. It`s visual energy influenced a great deal. One need only look at how it changed some of the visual language of music videos.
But now it is a spent force. Simply because it`s financial model has collapsed.
The very force that built the net, is now being consumed by the net.
What we`ll end up with online are party political websites, online shopping and videos of cats doing funny things. Oh, joy.

As for Ofcom replacing ATVOD.
Hmm, I`ll believe it when I see it. But are we not possibly just talking of Ofcom subsuming ATVOD? In short, nothing will change in practice. Extortion money will simply need to be paid to Ofcom instead of ATVOD.
Meanwhile, even if common sense breaks out. Isn`t it already too late? ATVOD has effectively murdered hundreds if not thousands of UK websites when the relevant law came into effect.
None of those sites will be back anytime soon.
Established web-traffic cannot simply be regained by the flick of a switch.
What may have taken a decade to grow in the face of fierce international competition online was wiped out in a day (ironically, by the pro-market Tories). It was wiped out for good, I say.

Regarding `Midnight Run`, thanks for the info, folks.
I still am astonished, mind.
Dear Mr Ferman was - evidently - an idiot.
Then again, what other than idiots do we expect an institution like the BBFC to attract?
Who will apply for a job to censor stuff? Anyone sensible?
It seems to be a job for which idiots are in fact self-selecting.
In an ideal world, anyone who wanted to work there would be disbarred from working there by default.

But yes, `Midnight Run` is a wonderful film. I advise anyone who has not yet seen it to give it a view.
For one, because it`s a good film. But also, because Mr Ferman evidently did not want you to watch it. That ought to be reason enough.

peegee123    [30801.   Posted 13-Oct-2015 Tue 16:23]
  Breaking news from the twitterverse: Ofcom to replace ATVOD as UK VOD regulator from 1st Jan 2016...

Sabreman64    [30800.   Posted 13-Oct-2015 Tue 06:11]
  I see the miserable feminists have won another victory. Playboy is to scrap all nudity early next year.

Their circulation has been falling steadily over recent years. I wouldn`t be surprised if this move causes their circulation to plummet. I for one will be cancelling my subscription (been buying the magazine for 25 years; subscribed for about 10 years). If I wanted to buy GQ or one of those mags, I would. My subscription to Playboy is mainly due to the tastefully posed nude women.

Pooch    [30799.   Posted 13-Oct-2015 Tue 04:47]
  MIDNIGHT RUN was passed as a 15 by the BBFC in 1988...

Ferman then upgraded it to an 18, presumably because of the extensive use of strong language.

As far as I know, the film has now been downgraded to a 15 by the BBFC, but I believe that the UK Blu-Ray is an 18, because of some of the other material the disc contains, e.g. trailers, extras. At least, that`s my understanding of it.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30798.   Posted 12-Oct-2015 Mon 08:48]
  DarkAngel, phantom

Who`d have thought in the time of the video nasties and Midnight Run that it would be hearing strong language that would persists as a censorship issue.

And who`d have thought back then that it would be simple opinion that would be the censorship focus of the nest generation. Even in political issues that are most dominant in the news, we are not allowed to comment on the ructions that are threatening the very existence of the EU. But at least we can watch Cannibal Holocaust.

DarkAngel5    [30797.   Posted 11-Oct-2015 Sun 01:33]
  Oh how times have changed. The Horror Channel screened the old video nasty "Cannibal Apocalypse" last night, which would have been completely unthinkable a few years ago.

Also it appeared to be the uncut version, the scene with the rats in the sewer getting splattered with napalm was intact in this. Compared it against my uncut US DVD from Image and both scenes were the same.

phantom    [30796.   Posted 7-Oct-2015 Wed 19:25]
  Just watched that old classic `Midnight Run` with Robert De Niro and Charles Grodin.
Marvellous movie.

But one thing does bewilder me.
How does a film with no nudity and no really serious, gory violence end up with an 18 certificate?

Was this another one of those episodes where the BBFC ran mad?
Sure, the language is fruity, but it was the late eighties, for heaven`s sake.
Did they still snap an 18 on it because the distributors were not willing to dub `flipping` and `melonfarmer` onto the audio track in the late eighties?

I would challenge anyone to watch that movie and tell me that was an 18 certificate.

Is that particular film yet another one of those times when the BBFC`s self appointed experts fell off their rocker? (as for example they did with their infamous Spiderman 12 certification)

One simply struggles to see how Robert De Niro and Charles Grodin in an unlikely buddy movie can warrant anything like an 18.

Wanton incompetence?

phantom    [30795.   Posted 2-Oct-2015 Fri 06:09]
  new PC Rule No1:
Maybe they ought to pixellate any churches which they happen to capture in the background of the picture in their reports on such violent incidents.
Just so there can be no suggestion that God was involved. :)

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30794.   Posted 2-Oct-2015 Fri 04:32]
  Re sheriffs and power.

Perhaps anyone who dreams up a new PC rule that the BBC is keen to grab at. It just takes a `bright` idea, maybe it only needs sufficient rank to get the idea aired in the first place.

sergio    [30793.   Posted 2-Oct-2015 Fri 00:51]
  Does the daily mail have the ugliest readers?

sergio    [30792.   Posted 2-Oct-2015 Fri 00:49]
  Bin readin `Black Box Thinking` by Matthew Syed. He talks about RCTs - Randomized Controlled Trials. So maybe that stupid pastor will have his idiotic idea strengthened that if the students all had guns then they could kill the shooter on the campus.
We would have a college where all the students and teachers have AK47s and another college where the students and teachers don`t have guns.
Let`s see how many people get killed.

The BBC was interesting on Radio this morning, a sheriff says that he wouldn`t name the shootist, so the BBC follow by not naming the shootist. But they had previously reported the name of the shootist - it is on their website -
How does a sheriff have some much power?

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30791.   Posted 22-Sep-2015 Tue 08:39]
  phantom, a good find, I will slot it in somewhere.

Sergio, I guess immorality in films is when the bad guys don`t get their comeuppance. And super immorality would be where the bad guys get the girl.

sergio    [30790.   Posted 20-Sep-2015 Sun 02:29]
  I still don`t get this. How does `morality` impact a BBFC age classification/censorship decision?

What film is the most immoral film at cert PG?12A?15?18?R18?

phantom    [30789.   Posted 19-Sep-2015 Sat 18:43]
  I know, I know...
This story is from Nov 2014, but I`ve only now come across it.
I don`t think I saw it on here, so I just had to give it a whirl.
Surely, this must be one of the ultimate censorship stories.

Apologies if this has already been dealt with long ago.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30788.   Posted 19-Sep-2015 Sat 05:11]
  Sergio, phantom

Good points indeed. Anthropologists with no humanity, ethicists without ethics, and academics who haven`t twigged that sex robots are likely to be sex Roberts

phantom    [30786.   Posted 18-Sep-2015 Fri 14:51]
  The Unintelligencia...

A question or two for the anti-sex-robot feministas:
a) is a dildo/vibrator a primitive form of sex robot?
b) if so, are you prepared to disavow the use of them?

I think the idea that men will flock to having sex with robots says everything about feminists. Misogyny may be their favourite word, but it is self-evident that it is in fact they who hate men.
Thus, their opinion of men.

In truth, men have no more interest in having sex with robots than they have in having sex with trees or a cup of tea.

Andrea `All-Sex-is-Rape` Dworkin may have spread the term `sex object` about (by misquoting Immanuel Kant), but the truth is, men do not want sex with objects.

Meanwhile, women like the idea of pleasuring themselves with plastic objects. Men generally do not.

So, if the sale of sex aids is anything to go by, sex robots are more likely to be called `Big John` than `Melinda`.

Frankly, there is something embarrassing about this whole project. Primarily, because it is unwittingly self-revelatory.
For it tells us everything about what these anti-sex-robot feminists think about sex. Clearly it is they who are objectifying people here and who are concluding that, therefore, everyone else objectifies people too.
Thus, they are objecting to behaviour which they are inferring from their own attitudes.
Can there be anything more ridiculous than publicly objecting to yourself?

So, dear feminists.
Women may like vibrators. Feminists may like vibrators.
It does therefore not follow that men like vibrating holes.
By publicly protesting against the latter you are merely broadcasting the former.

sergio    [30785.   Posted 18-Sep-2015 Fri 02:38]
  Anthropology is the study of humanity

Kathleen Richardson, a robot anthropologist ...
A robot is [part of] humanity.

Cats are people too ...
Everything, is everything ...

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30784.   Posted 14-Sep-2015 Mon 03:31]
  Thanks Therumbler.

I am not quite sure what happened on Saturday, Sunday`s links appear back to normal

Therumbler    [30783.   Posted 13-Sep-2015 Sun 15:08]
  The links for Saturday 12th September don`t seem to be directing correctly.

phantom    [30782.   Posted 11-Sep-2015 Fri 14:38]
  The day the female form stops being something which is erotic to a man, please, shoot me. :)

sergio    [30781.   Posted 10-Sep-2015 Thu 10:46]
  `Proudman said she had named Carter-Silk because she believed the public interest in exposing the “eroticisation of women’s physical appearance” by an influential and senior lawyer was greater than his right to privacy.`

phantom    [30780.   Posted 7-Sep-2015 Mon 12:58]
  Disgusting Prosecution:

Doesn`t that sound as though it was a rather `fire and brimstone` trial?

The judge sounds like the late Ian Paisley.

One can`t help but wonder whether the prosecutor quoted the psalms, Moses and Leviticus during his oration.

The supreme irony is that these two legal eagles, depending on their age, may well once have been saying the very same things about homosexuals in the courtroom.
But I don`t think irony is rated very highly at Leicester Crown Court.

Hatred and anger at things and people which are `disgusting` however still seems to be alive and well in Leicester.

Reading that article one does not get the impression that Leicester is a particularly friendly place to anyone who isn`t a heterosexual, white, Anglo-Saxon protestant who does it strictly in the missionary position.

Remind me to give Leicester a miss on my travels...

phantom    [30779.   Posted 6-Sep-2015 Sun 10:45]
Yes, I saw this one too on telly.
They introduced it as `5500 sex crimes` at schools in the past three years.
Then they featured one of those angry, campaigning women with a perpetual frown who spoke of there being `6000 rapes`.
Note how she rounded up the figure and concluded that all sex crime is rape.
More to the point, the BBC presenter neither corrected nor questioned her statement.
And yes, the `tip of the iceberg` was mentioned there too.

Personally, I cannot really accept this figure.
It seems born of the same sort of surveyism which produces `research` that declares thousands of ten year olds to be addicted to hardcore porn.
It just sees divorced of the reality we see around us and simply is designed to exploit parents` fears.

It goes without saying that none of this is in any way substantiated beyond a BBC freedom of information request to police forces.

Let us keep in mind that `Joey groped me` will be recorded as a `sex crime`. `Joey called me a slag` might also, in the current climate.
So too, `Joey said I was gay.`
Thus, what we are supposed to make of the usefulness of these figures is anyone`s guess.

But as the nation is in the firm grip of an `ism` these day, dogma is more important than anything else. Not least as we`re teaching it at school.

Feminism is just that. An `ism`.
We`ve had socialism, fascism, communism. We`ve had them all taught at school in their time, as quasi academic subjects.
I knew a Bulgarian woman once who told me of having had to sit through `socialism` classes at school before the iron curtain came down.

Feminism is another `ism` designed to pursue some strange, ill defined ideal.
Just like fascism and communism, etc it creates it`s own pseudo science which is purported to be undeniable (and unquestionable!) fact.

The very notion however that most of these supposed facts are either myths or vague ideas, reveals that - like all `isms` - it is really all just hot air.

Ideas such as trade, property and money are how old? How long did communism last? Yep.

How long have the civilisations of the earth had concepts of family and differing roles of the sexes? How long has feminism been around? Exactly.

We simply find ourselves in another one of these periods of mass delusion, Sergio.
It appears, all received wisdom of the ages is wrong and we must create society from scratch - on the back of an envelope.

Just as politicians in this country once quoted Marx and Engels as though they were prophets, they now wax lyrical about feminist ideals - and the need to crush all resistance to it.

When we wake up from this latest folly is anyone`s guess.
Until then just smile as they quote their statistics.
Once they kept going on about how the USSR produced so many more tractors for the proletariat than the corrupt west.
Now they tell us about mass rape at school.

Ah well, just remember that pinch of salt...

sergio    [30778.   Posted 6-Sep-2015 Sun 09:35]

Sexual abuse sells:

"`The National Police Chiefs` Council lead for child protection, Chief Constable Simon Bailey, fears the problem may be even worse.
"I believe these figures are the tip of the iceberg.
"It is good news that more victims have the confidence to come forward and report abuse, although - while I cannot prove this - I believe more child abuse is taking place. "

I wonder why he `cannot prove` it.
Jon Brown, head of Sexual Abuse Programmes at the NSPCC, said: ...
"We know that for some older children, accessing hardcore pornography is warping their view of what is acceptable behaviour. And the very young - those of primary school age or even younger - may be copying sexual activity they have witnessed."


ATVOD was interviewed on radio 4
Clips on daily mail are not `tv like`.
Most complaints are about childrens access to porn.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30777.   Posted 4-Sep-2015 Fri 00:10]

Absolutely disgraceful policing but I think the USA are the world leaders on this topic

phantom    [30776.   Posted 3-Sep-2015 Thu 07:41]
  Good to see UK law setting an example to the rest of the world again.

phantom    [30775.   Posted 2-Sep-2015 Wed 06:35]
  I love it. I`m a film! :)

And having watched the trailer, what I now need to do is practice staring intently into the mirror and doing a lot of pointing and shouting. ;)

gauravmanral    [30774.   Posted 1-Sep-2015 Tue 23:29]
  Pakistani Actors Shaan Shahid & Mawra Hocane start Twitter war over Phantom!
Since its release, Kabir Khan’s ‘Phantom’ has been in the news not for its run at the box office but about its content against Terrorism. After banned in Pakistan, the Saif Ali Khan and Katrina Kaif starrer is again in a row. Two Pakistani actors Shaan Shahid and Mawra Hocane have now faced off each other on social networking site Twitter over the film.

phantom    [30773.   Posted 1-Sep-2015 Tue 17:11]
  Censorship, Islamic State-style:

One wonders whether the much-reported destruction of the Temples of Baal-Shameen and Bel in Palmyra by IS is merely the cultural vandalism it is made out to be.

You see, there is a nagging suspicion at the back of my head that it might in fact be an attempt at censoring something inconvenient from the collective memory.

Various historians have long argued that Islam is a religion which evolved out of pre-existing Pagan cults in the region.
Suspicion centres around various deities which bear the name Bal, or something close to this.
Baal, Ba`al, Bel, Bol, H`bal, Hubal, even El Gabal, etc
They largely seem to be variants of much of the same thing. (usually, celestial deities)

One such deity seems to have ended up being worshipped in Mecca.
According to Islamic tradition – until – Mohammed threw out the Pagan gods and introduced Islam.
According to some historians, it`s more likely that this Pagan deity evolved into what is now Allah.

Whether you attribute any credibility to these historical theories or not, it is rather telling that some hyper-religious Islamic cult has now taken to destroying temples related to such a possible, historical connection.

To me it suggests that this might not merely be the destruction of Pagan temples by zealots. After all, what threat could a ruined Pagan temple be to Islam? Is anyone really suggesting it represents any temptation for Muslims to resort back to Paganism? It seems a stretch – even for fanatics.

But with the worship of Baal/Bel being at the root of the historical suspicions surrounding the beginnings of Islam, the destruction of these temples takes on a different nature.
It seems one is trying to expunge something from history, because one doesn`t want to confront a possible alternative truth. Perhaps one is even a little afraid. After all, what if the theories are true?

It is of course very interesting is that the media have stayed away from this angle. I cannot have been the only person to have had this thought.
So why the silence? Well, the fear of offence to other Muslims, no doubt. After all, the theories regarding proto-Islamic history are not merely unpopular with IS...

Before anyone says so, I know that Islamic State have form on destroying Pagan sites and artefacts. Their alleged bulldozing of Nineveh was widely reported, so too did they film themselves smashing up statuary in an Iraqi museum.
Their actions at Palmyra may therefore simply be maniacal, religious rampage.

But with the Temples of Baal and Bel being the first thing they go for, one cannot but feel there might be a little more to it than barbarians doing what barbarians do.
One might in fact be trying to censor something from history.

braintree    [30772.   Posted 29-Aug-2015 Sat 13:56]
  Not the sort of post I would usually put on here but I have to say I don`t think they are looking purely for revenge regarding the Scottish bin lorry incident. They are looking for justice. The driver was clearly criminally negligent and it`s a disgrace the authorities are forcing the families to take the legal action.Despite killing all those people the driver actually applied to have his licence back AFTER the incident.The legal system should at the very least prosecute him for failing to disclose his medical condition. One person lost a parent and their daughter in that one incident

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30771.   Posted 29-Aug-2015 Sat 10:03]
  phantom, re BBC news

We are living in a strange BBCland these days. AS far as I can see there are only 3 things going on, endless mourning at an airshow accident, endless lust for revenge over a bin lorry accident and of course ongoing glorying in the plight of people trying to escape Africa and the Middle East.

It is sometimes a pleasure to channel hop on to Russia Today and Al-Jazeera news, still propaganda but at least it is about more important news than the BBC car crash, public grief and blame broadcasting.

phantom    [30770.   Posted 27-Aug-2015 Thu 06:44]
  Talking of violence, these days we have censorship of the news at an unprecedented level.

Yes, we report on the `car crash` events, sensationalising them. But at the critical moment our media always `blinks`.
`Violence` is represented by staged occasions of IS fighters emptying their kalashnikovs at a clearly fictional enemy at the other end of a field, or war planes taking off. Maybe even a grainy black and white image of a laser guided missile going off.

I guess because `violence corrupts`, news must corrupt also – if it`s reporting on violence.

I recall imagery and film of the South Vietnamese general ruthlessly shooting a Vietcong prisoner in the head.
These were pictures which went around the world.
They shocked. But they told us something.
Most of all, they reflected the truth. Not a truth, filtered for taste and decency. But a stark, uncomfortable truth.
I recall naked Vietnamese girls running down a road, after a napalm attack on their village, their skin hanging from them.
Stark, brutal truth. Truth about consequences. Truth about actions. About governments.

Now apparently we`re much too `tasteful` to broadcast this sort of truth. So we`re told.

We live at a time of victims being a pixellated blur. Or presenters take the moral high ground by telling us how they are much too sensitive and caring to show us the details of an outrage.

Instead they pillory those who would show these things on the internet.
As Newsnight did last night when taking a swipe at LiveLeak co-founder Hayden Hewitt.

Naturally, the BBC presenter didn`t accept the argument that mainstream media, such as his, was sensationalising the event of journalists being shot in Virginia, causing people to want to view the event. No, no. It`s all someone else`s fault.
Michael Wolff, the talking head brought in to pillory Hayden Hewitt did come spectacularly unstuck when it emerged that he – the man arguing that people should be prevented from seeing this – had in fact viewed it himself.

I have long felt uncomfortable with this BBFC style reporting of the news.

Especially in a day and age, when we partake in warfare whereby we strike death and destruction on enemies from miles away in planes, it is rather convenient to feel `too sensitive` to show our people the effects of such Nintendo war.

We have entered this strange world in which violent events are described to us on the news, but not shown. A strange paradox for what is an audio-visual medium.

But if the powers-that-be accept the notion that we can be corrupted by violence in film, then – by logical extension – we can be corrupted by violence in the news. Thus, we must be prevented from being corrupted.
Truth corrupts. Thus, truth must be censored.
It`s for our own good.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30769.   Posted 27-Aug-2015 Thu 00:34]
  Re `obscene` violence

A lot TV news these days seems to be `car crash of the day` reporting relishing in the grief of the victims. This is all very reminiscent of watching news in Thailand, where they are at least trying to wean themselves off this mawkishness. Commentators seem to consider this as propaganda in that it is used as a distraction for more important news.

As to violence prosecutions for obscenity, all the video nasty prosecutions were brought under obscenity law. Since then until around 2000, customs seizures of violent films were based on obscenity claims, albeit rarely actually being tested in court.

Therumbler    [30768.   Posted 26-Aug-2015 Wed 15:14]
  Was there ever a case in which obscenity law was used against non-sexual violence?

sergio    [30767.   Posted 26-Aug-2015 Wed 08:09]
  What do you think? People being shot live on TV? Is it obscene? Posted on a family newspaper website? Ok? ok...

braintree    [30766.   Posted 24-Aug-2015 Mon 13:31]
  I wasn`t referring to VHS I was talking about dvd. The UK Laserdisc was the UK premier for the uncut version of Videodrome and the very first UK dvd carried the same version - it wasn`t anamorphic so might have even used the same master. Trouble is, I sold it when the Criterion dvd came out but Amazon only list the 2008 dvd which is cut - and we know that the UK didn`t have to wait until 2008 for Videodrome on dvd. I have a stash of old dvd mags from the early era so I`ll have a look through those. I remember being very pleasantly surprised when we got the film on dvd before the US. And if it had been the R version I wouldn`t have bought it at all.
I can`t locate the details of the early release other than it was not anamorphic. The dvd on Amazon shows as 2008 but we know that non anamorphic dvd`s were gone many years before that date.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30764.   Posted 24-Aug-2015 Mon 00:10]
  Braintree re Videodrome (corrected)

A CIC VHS presumably in 1990 claimed on the cover "Includes Footage not previously available on video in the UK". This was true in that it restored material pre-cut for 1987 VHS. However it was still the R rated version.


Don`t you think that video is downloaded from the internet that is nothing to do with regular programming is more DVD-link than TV-Like. I think this is the nub of the ATVOD land grab, as the Euro directive was very much talking about linear TV like programming delivered via the internet, at least during the discussions leading up to the law.

sergio    [30763.   Posted 23-Aug-2015 Sun 04:03]
Are there TV-like programmes?
It remains ATVOD’s view that the Service does contain programmes the form and content of which are comparable to that of programmes normally included in television
programme services.

Normally, right, I see loads of explicit spanking on terrestrial TV.

Right? What was the last hard caning I saw on BBC4?

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30762.   Posted 23-Aug-2015 Sun 03:52]
  Re Videodrome Thanks Braintree, I`ll follow this up.

braintree    [30761.   Posted 22-Aug-2015 Sat 13:39]
  Although the first UK Bluray of Videodrome is not the unrated version the first UK dvd release was billed as "the directors cut" which presumably is the unrated version. IIRC it came out in the UK on dvd before the US. Don`t know if the 2008 reissue is unrated or R.
I got the UK Laserdisc of the film which was uncut and it was a surprise to see the uncut version appear on dvd before the US although it was released in the early days of dvd so is not anamorphic. But it`s not on Amazon who only show a 2008 dvd version which must go back to the cut version again which is why the UK Blu is also cut

phantom    [30759.   Posted 21-Aug-2015 Fri 19:03]
  Now this one is interesting:

I`m not a great fan of the unions.
However, just exactly why should they not be able to be active on social media during strikes?

This has more than a hint of the Iranian approach to social media about it...

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30758.   Posted 19-Aug-2015 Wed 23:53]
  Perhaps David Cooke will be exchanging his scissors for gardening shears.

phantom    [30757.   Posted 19-Aug-2015 Wed 12:48]
  May he rest in peace. ;)

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30756.   Posted 19-Aug-2015 Wed 10:40]
  BBFC Director David Cooke to retire in March 2016

phantom    [30755.   Posted 18-Aug-2015 Tue 14:56]
  Ah, but you`re not thinking like a sneaky, cynical leech on society, are you, Sergio?
You are making the mistake of applying common sense.

Because you see, crime has been falling for thirty years now.
There is no reason to think it will suddenly start rising.

So, what you do is you connect something with crime. Ban it. And then claim the predictable fall in overall crime was due to your intervention.

Politicians have been playing that game for years now. Or have you not heard them tell you that any fall in crime is due to their good stewardship? When crime has fallen across the developed world, that is of course nonsense. But things making no sense has yet to discourage any blackguard from taking credit.

So is it not a natural thing for the censorship industry to follow the example of politicians?

a) you claim that some activity is causing the earth`s gravity to fail.
b) you ban said activity.
c) you drop an apple to demonstrate that gravity is now fully functional.
d) you claim credit for saving earth.
e) you find something else which you don`t like and claim it causes water to run upstream....
f) You collect your BBFC paycheck.

sergio    [30754.   Posted 18-Aug-2015 Tue 10:35]
  Children watch violent/sexualized and inappropriate content music videos.
Crime goes up. Right?

BBFC are now part of the Police state and helping drive down crime. Right?

What if crime doesn`t go down?
Maybe it`s not about crime. What`s it all about Alfie?

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30753.   Posted 14-Aug-2015 Fri 23:58]
  A very good point Phantom which amused me

I will have to add this to the main site.

phantom    [30752.   Posted 14-Aug-2015 Fri 06:13]
  Is it me?
Today the BBC is broadcasting a royal sob story, whereby Prince William (the future monarch) is letting it be known, how intrusive the surveillance of Prince George (another future monarch) is becoming, with paparazzi hiding in the boots of cars to get photographs, etc.

Correct me if I`m wrong, but isn`t the current state surveillance apparatus - in which the security services do considerably more than lurk in car boots with photo cameras - being run in the name of Prince William`s very own grandmama (the present monarch)?

If Prince William does not want intrusive surveillance of his son, does this mean he would object to it being done in his name to his own people when he eventually ascends the throne?

Or should one maybe not bandy about the word `surveillance` so lightly?
At least not while Her Majesty`s services are collecting data on us all at an industrial level...

phantom    [30751.   Posted 10-Aug-2015 Mon 05:03]
  Yes, I agree with Dave.
Framing this in terms of violating women`s rights has way more chance of achieving an impact with media and politicians than framing it as violating human rights.
For some reason in the current political climate women trump humans.
Make of that what you will...

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30750.   Posted 9-Aug-2015 Sun 14:21]
  Sergio, whilst it all smacks of the usual discrimination that men`s enjoyment of sex and sex entertainment is always considered morally repugnant, the feminist angle is surely one to applaud. It has probably got way more chance of succeeding then men complaining that they are being censored.

sergio    [30749.   Posted 9-Aug-2015 Sun 04:21]
  Is Backlash a feminist organization?

`Backlash is concerned, in particular, with the effect of regulation on small British businesses, especially female-owned and managed porn production companies.`

Why are they concerned with `especially female-owned` companies?

sergio    [30748.   Posted 6-Aug-2015 Thu 07:29]
  Look`s like Pandora`s box is closed or waiting for an appeal.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30747.   Posted 5-Aug-2015 Wed 01:06]
  Re Amnesty and prostitution and the Guardian

The Guardian have published an article providing a bit of a balance to their stridently feminist editorial.

But one of the comments noted that the piece was published in an obscure column:

"In the storm of (mostly moralizing, generalizing, opinion) articles on the subject, this is the first one with actual links to actual reports with actual evidence. Sadly it`s all but hidden in an obscure "Global development" column, meaning that it won`t be read (as demonstrated by the 4 comments in 24 hours)".

phantom    [30746.   Posted 4-Aug-2015 Tue 13:16]
  So Amnesty`s position on prostitution is `divisive and distracting`?

Can there be any argument more intellectually lazy than simply to state that something is `a distraction`?
In essence the Guardian is taking the position that it`s not Amnesty`s job to deal with prostitution. That it`s a distraction from their core cause.

Then again, is it the Guardian`s job to opine on what is Amnesty`s job? Or is that a distraction from the Guardian`s core cause? One can go on with that ad infinitum. Frankly, it`s cheap.

Amnesty decided that the routine, casual, institutionalised violation of human rights of prostitutes by government agencies around the world called for action.
I do not really see how it is the Guardian`s role to question whether the above is Amnesty`s role.
It seems very much that one is seeking to disagree, despite not really having an argument.

As for it being divisive; is the Guardian`s position that Amnesty ought only hold views with which everyone agrees?

After all, I recall a good many republicans in the days of George W Bush`s reign who did not agree with Amnesty`s position on the `enhanced interrogation` of al Qaeda prisoners.

So why is the Guardian concerned when the objection to Amnesty`s policy is made by Meryl Streep, rather than Dick Cheney?

Moreover, what greater moral authority does Meryl Streep have over the likes of Dick Cheney?

Is it not that dear Meryl has for some time been a vocal feminist and that the Guardian is a self-proclaimed feminist newspaper? Does not the Guardian itself in this very article say that a good many feminists object to this policy?
So is that not really the crux of it? Traditional feminists disagree with legalising prostitution. We agree with Meryl.

The reality is that prostitution exists in a sort of legal limbo in most nations around the planet. The powers that be are well aware of the necessity of `the oldest profession`, but for reasons of moral tradition and good old fashioned politicking, they have always taken the opportunity to express their distaste for this trade; in word as well as law.

Prostitutes remain the `unclean`, the `untouchables` in the world`s societies.

Lip service may be paid to equality of all, but under the so-called policies of `discouraging the trade`, a great deal of unfairness and hypocrisy is doled out.
As we all know, much of this country`s law makes little sense when it comes to prostitution. Much proposed law is even worse.

So the question is, what is the Guardian`s own position?
Wishing for nirvana in which there is no prostitution, there are no drugs and all people are nice to each other, is not a position.
Prostitution exists. It always will. How is one to handle it?

Multimillionaire actresses, ensconced in their Hollywood mansions, may feel that prostitution ought to be abolished and the women instead should be allowed to live in fairy castles.
But if the Guardian has the gall to criticise an institution as noble as Amnesty International, then it better have an alternative to Amnesty`s position.

The truth is, it is uncomfortable to find that the very organisation which once stood up to the Pinochets of this world now may be challenging a view one holds dear oneself.

But the Guardian, – rather than question its own dogma toward prostitution and the women who work in it, - finds it more convenient instead to attack Amnesty.
It seems that – even at the Guardian – shooting the messenger is oft the preferred option.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30745.   Posted 4-Aug-2015 Tue 07:36]
  Glenn, I added the news about Nekromantik 2 and it stirred plenty of interest.

Therumbler, an interesting comment from the Guardian, i read it as accepting the harms caused by criminalisation but concluding that the feminist/PC cause trumped those concerns.

Therumbler    [30744.   Posted 2-Aug-2015 Sun 15:25]

Guardian condemns Amnesty`s motion to to legalise sex work, calls it a dangerous distraction.

My favourite journalist lately takes issue with it

I recommend keeping an eye on her Twitter feed as she regularly covers stories like this, and so far she`s been on `our` side.

Glenn Quagmire    [30743.   Posted 2-Aug-2015 Sun 11:07]
  I just though I`d let people know that "Nekromantik 2" has been passed uncut by the BBFC for home release.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30742.   Posted 2-Aug-2015 Sun 05:35]

I reckon if they somehow managed to ban all porn from the internet overnight, there would be enough to last a life time already on hard drives.

A single 32Gbyte stick full of porn passed around amongst kids would be enough to last a fair while.

Therumbler    [30741.   Posted 1-Aug-2015 Sat 10:56]

Frankie Mullen, the only journalist who seems to bother questioning anti-sex and anti-porn stories, breaks down the faults in recent attack on Amnesty.

phantom    [30740.   Posted 30-Jul-2015 Thu 20:28]
  Yes, Cameron seems determined.
And the left (represented by the Guardian here) is right behind it.

So it just looks like a juggernaut that`s unstoppable now.
Reason simply doesn`t apply here. This whole censorship malarky follows its own, twisted logic.
Children are assumed to be in danger from an assumed harm. So censorship will provide the solution, one assumes. :)

Are we truly `protecting children`? Or are we far more playing to the sensitivities of easily offended women (i.e. voters!) with a chip on their shoulder about porn?

Of course, the moment you have an industry which complies with the government`s ludicrous regulations, you will have a lobby group interested in protecting its position and investment.
So the UK porn industry (the BBFC approved and ATVOD registered material providers) will invariably need protecting from the utterly unregulated, mainly American providers with their far superior material.
Having ruled the material illegal over here, one will then need to create the great fire wall, to protect those who comply from competition that would otherwise crush them.

In that respect it will be the same story as with the sex shops who pay licences. They must be guaranteed a quasi monopoly. Else why pay for a licence?

Thus, we have entered a new censorial era. Who has forgotten the days of David Sullivan`s `hardcore` material being sold in the UK in the 1990s?
This is where we`re headed. But now on the net. This time with full nudity. How exciting. :)

Naturally it`s an utterly futile effort.
Censorship never works. We know what happened to the desperate censorship efforts of the 1990s.
They collapsed. They always collapse.

For what which once was censored remains censored?
The censorial and legalistic types talk of censorship adapting to changing standards. But the truth is, that the standards only ever change in one direction. The past centuries of censorship have only ever seen standards go one way. One would think at some point someone would learn.

Not too long ago, I swallowed hard, when Depeche Mode`s `Personal Jesus` was used in a male perfume advert. When that record came out it was deemed a product of Sodom and Gomorrah. Now it`s the background to daytime television advertisements – in the run up to Christmas, no less.

Censorship is a science of ignorance, where those who deliberately hold themselves ignorant, by refusing to learn from history, try to keep their compatriots equally ignorant.

I remember reading Duerrenmatt`s `Physicists` yonks ago. In it the great thinker examines how a thought that has been thought cannot be `unthought`.
What has been thought simply is. Like a weed it will find a way. Simply because it will.
You cannot censor the thought which has been thought, the discovery which has been made. It exists. You can pretend that it doesn`t. But it will continue to exist.
Duerrenmatt may apply this to nuclear theory and atom bombs, but it applies just as much to porn or horror films.

Just as you cannot censor atomic knowledge (look to Iran on that very matter!), so you cannot stop Debbie from doing Dallas, over and over.

It is simply an incontrovertible truth. Censorship fails.
But it creates untold misery while it continues its futile struggle.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30739.   Posted 30-Jul-2015 Thu 03:42]
  So the government are kicking off another round of publicity for their anti-porn efforts

Sergio re the legal argument.

I think it also quite key that none of the other countries have decided that porn is seriously harmful. It would be interesting if the UK had to argue its case in Euro court, any winning arguments would have serious ramifications for the rest of Europe.

sergio    [30738.   Posted 30-Jul-2015 Thu 00:48]
  Ms Pandora letter: she seems to be saying that because she sadistically and sexually beats men and women and that she is a feminist and a woman then she is not sleazy. Ok.

The last part of the letter seems to be the legal advice she is getting from those backlashers.

`Anyway, my substantive representation is as follows. Your Rule 11 and 14 claims rely on an implementation of the AVMS that goes way beyond the provisions of the underlying Directive 2010/13/EU. Whilst I accept that in certain quarters it is currently in vogue to blame all the ills of society on those dastardly continentals, when approving the Treaty to join the EU in 1972 Parliament anticipated this pernicious influence in the European Communities Act 1972, and under Section 2(2) granted a Secretary of State the power only to pass secondary legislation for the purpose of implementing any EU obligation, but to go no further - an interpretation buttressed by case law, in particular Marleasing SA v La Comercial Internacional de Alimentacion SA 1992 1 CMLR 305.

Hence I submit the Audiovisual Media Services Regulations 2014, which introduced sections 368E(2) and (3) into the Communications Act 2003, were made ultra vires the Secretary of State`s power to pass secondary legislation.`
Hey! Secretary of state, you ain`t got no authority (to pass this law).

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30737.   Posted 28-Jul-2015 Tue 14:18]

I rather think these figures don`t really suggest there is much porn viewing going on there. There are typically 1000 members and maybe 2 staff each, so a fair amount of websites being accessed. Then there are also loads of sites like melon farmers that are blocked with the message `porn` so surely there are thousands of useful non-porn sites similarly blocked.

But it is interesting to note that people are trying to generate new laws about porn without actually being able to see what they are legislating against.

Also good to note that the authorities feel the need to block MPs from viewing porn in the first place. They`ll be initiating drugs tests next.

And of course it is excellent that this attempt to prevent MPs from viewing porn ends up suggesting that they watch loads of the stuff.

DarkAngel5    [30736.   Posted 28-Jul-2015 Tue 08:10]
  Have you guys read this? Seems our learned peers see nothing wrong in viewing porn whilst simultaneously seeking to prevent us from doing to same....

Hypocrisy in the extreme!!!!

braintree    [30735.   Posted 27-Jul-2015 Mon 13:53]
  I think the version I saw was uncut. The "eye" scene was there and that`s pretty much the goriest moment of the film. July 1983 is much later than when I first saw it.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30734.   Posted 27-Jul-2015 Mon 12:46]

Interesting about the versions of Zombie Holocaust.

There may be an explanation here:

VTC issued a less cut version before replacing it with a more heavily cut version

braintree    [30732.   Posted 25-Jul-2015 Sat 14:59]
  Re Zombie Holocaust. I remember renting this movie in 1982 from a local video shop and it was the complete version. So when I went to watch it again a year or two later and got the VTC version I was gutted to see it was also gutted of the juiciest scenes. I never did find out the source of the uncut version. I did wonder if it was the Dutch tape but that would have had subtitles on it (although I`m not sure it didn`t) but I can`t see why my local video shop would have bothered to buy in a Dutch tape when there was more than enough blood and gore coming out at that point. Very surprised when the UK dvd was uncut in 2000. The new Bluray is an upgrade and worth buying for the feature length documentary on cannibal movies which is only available on US Bluray on the region locked disc of Cannibal Ferox

Therumbler    [30731.   Posted 23-Jul-2015 Thu 14:44]
  Interesting that ATVOD targeted Vice. One of their writers, Frankie Mullen, appears to be in Melonfarmers` and has questioned the validity of some of the research being used to push internet filters.

This isn`t the first time someone questioning ATVOD`s vision has been targeted by them:

It seems pretty likely that my visibility as a campaigner has made me a target. In other words, ATVOD are punishing me for speaking out against them. My priorities as a loud-mouthed activist have, it seems, ended up conflicting with my priorities as a creative artist. If I`d kept my head down and stayed quiet, and not attended any protests, or argued against the regulations on the news, or done interviews with the press - if I`d not written a lot of angry blogposts or fundraised £3826 to help Backlash fight the laws - maybe I`d have been left alone a bit longer.

cor    [30729.   Posted 20-Jul-2015 Mon 03:39]

We can extrapolate how the big music companies would like the future to go by your example and things like this;

And as for Operating systems, Microsoft, Apple and Google seem happily compliant trashing our rights for a pat on the back from political leaders as well.

Whether skeptical about some of this or not, the utopian future idealized by some clearly includes total annihilation of personal privacy.

And it makes sense that in preparing for such a future corporations (and governments) would like to maintain their legal advantages over us. Though i think this is largely a formality, as it will be fairly easy to strip rights from a people who are under such total observation and so under total control.

phantom    [30728.   Posted 19-Jul-2015 Sun 16:54]
  We seem to be heading toward an age where even our fridge will be connected to the net.
In ten, twenty years time we may well have devices which are all linked.
It may thus turn out to be your home entertainment system, your mobile phone, your laptop or your cloud storage which rats you out regarding what copies you might have made.
We cannot know where things are headed - but they will try and keep their options open - as things may well head their way.
Especially with more and more programmes being operable from the cloud rather than via your harddisk copy, the potential for such future reporting is very great.
I maintain that the music industry know what they`re doing. They are playing the very same game our dear government played with `illegal` porn.
What is clear is that, however pointless or lost the situation may appear, they will never cease fighting their corner, as they always hold out hope that things may swing their way - eventually.

braintree    [30727.   Posted 19-Jul-2015 Sun 13:31]
  I didn`t say anything about downloading. I said making your own copies of cd`s or copying your content to a hard drive, which is something the best technology they ever get won`t even know about. Downloading isn`t something they`ve changed. Illegal downloading remains illegal and they can carry on blocking sites willy nilly and perhaps might even make a difference. This High Court ruling is about making personal copies - not downloading which is why it`s pointless - because they are trying to prevent something they can never keep track of. It`s as pointless as when they tried to bring in the law preventing people from keeping home VCR recordings for longer than 28 days

phantom    [30726.   Posted 18-Jul-2015 Sat 16:58]
  I don`t think it`s because the industry believes it will be able to change something immediately, Braintree.

I believe they simply wish to keep their options open. Future technological developments may go their way. But only if at that point they still have the law backing them, can they use it to their advantage.
I believe that`s the way they see it.

In that regard they are taking their lead from government. For years UK government maintained an insane principle that all content on the entire net is published in the UK and therefore liable to legal sanctions.

But now look at them. Slowly the technological net is closing. They simply maintained a nonsense throughout a time in which things were impossible. Their goal was always porn. And now? Now the legal steps have been put in place with ATVOD etc.
Sooner or later, one will be able to ban foreign porn (or such foreign porn one wishes to victimise) for breaking UK law, - because it`s published here...

The forces of sexual bigotry held on for ten years or so, throughout which their cause looked hopeless. The internet meant we were winning. But we, the libertarians, are a disorganised jumble of idealists.
They won. Because they played the long game. They maintained useless legal options, waiting for the moment when technology turned in their favour.
Now it`s happening. And they`ll have their great British firewall pretty soon. To keep out the foreign muck which is `breaking` UK law.

Who could blame the music industry for playing the same game?
So what if everyone ignores their pointless, unenforcible laws. They`ll wait. Until such a day when enforcement is possible. Then they reclaim their lost territory and start selling cds at 15 quid again.
But that day may only come if they succeed in maintaining the legal status quo.

Remember that Snowden`s revelations shocked the world. Not merely by telling us whom governments were spying on, but by showing what IT capacity`s they have by now.
These tremendous IT surveillance capacities will only increase. And sooner or later they will be turned on music downloaders.

Then tell me again how pointless the music industry`s actions are....

braintree    [30725.   Posted 18-Jul-2015 Sat 14:04]
  It`s incredible that the music business wastes so much money going to the High Court to overturn the legalisation of making personal copies in the delusion that it matters to anyone. We all made personal copies before the ruling and we will continue to do so after it. Does this mean that copying your cds to a hard drive will be illegal? We may never care.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30724.   Posted 17-Jul-2015 Fri 05:42]
  ATVOD has released its latest Annual Report

Press release at

Annual Report at

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30723.   Posted 14-Jul-2015 Tue 01:47]
  The BBFC has released its Annual Report covering 2014

The press release is at

The report is at

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30722.   Posted 14-Jul-2015 Tue 01:46]
  Thanks Doodlebug, I will get the info updated.

DoodleBug    [30721.   Posted 13-Jul-2015 Mon 13:49]
  RE : The Cell (U.S. BLU-RAY)

The new U.S. release of The Cell has been confirmed to contain the Unrated version (109 mins) of the movie.

See post below from forum member "cakefactory" with screenshots :

The reviewer on the site also states the running time difference in his review.

Despite the back cover stating an R-rating, cover screenshots on show a running time of 109 mins.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30720.   Posted 9-Jul-2015 Thu 05:57]
  Well the ISP have now `upgraded the server`, and the forum still seems to be working. This is a bit strange as they told me the server would then no longer support the database, Access, that is being used.

phantom    [30719.   Posted 1-Jul-2015 Wed 06:14]
  Funny you should mention government proposals to have teachers spying on pupils.

You see, I have a little first hand experience of that.
I may be born in Britain but I grew up in Switzerland.
There is a little known story from Switzerland which is very relevant to the Snowden revelations and the entire modern day security apparatus.

A little over 25 years ago a scandal blew up in Switzerland, when it emerged that the government had been spying on its people.
It became known as the `dossier affair`, due to the government apparently keeping dossiers on vast numbers of people.
The population was outraged.

Unlike the UK and US governments the Swiss federal government did not have the gall to claim it needed to do this and instead came clean.
It promised to destroy the dossiers.
Everyone was given the right to claim a copy of their dossier in order to see what was in it.

Like me, most did not. Because who would expect to have been of interest to the government anyway, right?

Well, it so happened I much later met an old school friend on a tram. We talked. Turns out, he had asked for his copy.
The first entry had been made when we were in primary school together, at about the age of ten. He was `a loner, kept to himself, tended to get into trouble`, etc.

One thing is clear, if my pal had been reported by the teacher for that, then so will I have been. Not least as I had been his best friend back then at school.
But sadly it was past the deadline. So no chance anymore of getting myself a copy of my dossier. Too bad. It would no doubt have made interesting reading.

So, although I do not know it for certain, I`m pretty sure I will have been catalogued by the nation`s authorities - from age ten onwards. Reported on by my primary teachers and so forth. I would never have suspected it, until I just happened to bump into my long lost friend Alain years later.

The lesson is clear. You may not suspect anything at all. You may think yourself of no interest to the authorities at all. Yet still they`ll make their notes.
Just in case a ten year old loner who keeps to himself and gets into trouble might turn into a terrorist someday.
Better safe than sorry....

You see, the most worrying aspect about the scandal was that nobody ever explained for whom or what the dossiers were actually ever intended. You only collect such data if one day you intend to look at it for some purpose.

The `dossier affair` got more and more sinister. After the first scandal had blown, there followed another one soon after.
Switzerland has military conscription.
Believe it or not, they had a list of officer`s names who - due to their dossiers - were deemed untrustworthy. On outbreak of war, these were to be imprisoned.

And remember, this was Switzerland. Peaceable, quiet, deeply democratic Switzerland. Cheese, watches and mountains.

Yet, if left unchecked, they would spy on ten year olds and file the reports forever and, better yet, lock up their own officers.

So when I hear of the UK government, which is dossier mad, asking teachers to do some intelligence gathering for them, it`s like hearing an old story repeated.

After all, I believe myself to have been logged, filed and catalogued.
Because I was as contrary back then as I still am today. :)

If a teacher files a report on a pupil, then it will need to go somewhere. It will be kept in a file - a dossier - connected to this individual for life.

Over time the curiosity of the state will only expand.
Until they`re logging all kids.
Just like in Switzerland.
Just to be safe....

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30718.   Posted 1-Jul-2015 Wed 05:25]
  phantom, a fascinating post.

Maybe there is another level of societal political correctness at play though.

There are absolute rules that are widely supported. And then there are the rules that everybody knows are bollox, and only given lip service for published comments.

I think many of the issues you note are protected by a veneer of PC but it doesn`t go very deep. There can`t be many who buy the claim that `radicaliation` is some sort of instant 100% transformation/revelation initiated by an internet posting. It seems clear that such occurances are more likely reflections of the milieu in which these people live their day to day lives.

Of course the authorities could never say that... But they could pressgang teachers into spying on signs of exactly that unmentionable community background.

phantom    [30717.   Posted 29-Jun-2015 Mon 14:10]
  I`m sorry but Boris is just plain wrong.
Who knows, perhaps deliberately so.
One of the characteristics of the definitions surrounding Islamist terrorism is that the political leadership of this country are always divorcing it from Islam.
No doubt, they don`t want to lose the votes of the Muslim citizenry who might choose to feel offended.
But the truth is that we simply haven`t got Jewish or Protestant men with Kalashnikovs combing holiday beaches for people to shoot.


a) How often have we heard this phrase?
`Islamist terrorism has nothing to do with Islam.`
Over and again we are told by self appointed Muslim community leaders, government and opposition politicians that Islamist ideology is a perversion of a great faith and that the terrorists represent merely a tiny minority of Muslims.


However, over the past 35 years we have seen a fundamentalisation across the Muslim world. If we are completely honest, does a fundamentalisation mean that, as societies, they move closer or further away from the absolutist ideology of the terrorists?
I believe the answer to that is obvious. To deny that Muslim societies across the world have hardened their stance over the past three to four decades flies in the face of self-evident history.
Ayatollah Khomeini`s rise to power in Iran, the growth of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, the diminution of secular leadership in the struggle for an independent Palestine, the decline of Bathist nationalism, the rise of Hisbollah and Hamas. Even Turkey – the country of Ataturk - now has a distinctly Islamic government. All this is not mere coincidence.

It cannot be denied that Lebanon was once hailed `the Switzerland of the Middle East`, with women in western dress walking the promenades of Beirut. Many pictures of men in Afghanistan from the 1970s will show them clean shaven, wearing suits.
One of the things which offended Khomeini so terribly was that there were women in miniskirts on the streets of Teheran.

But where has all this gone? It was swept aside in a gradual, but dramatic fundamentalisation. Caught up in a vicious cycle, Islamic countries almost vied with each other regarding who could prove more devoutly religious.
Women`s western dress disappeared more and more. Life became much more strictly prescribed.
Beards made a big come back. So did the western suit begin to disappear. Everywhere, in every facet of civil life religion entered more and more. Even the tales of `A thousand and one nights` were widely banned for being `unislamic`. (This despite these tales being part of the Middle East`s very own cultural heritage.)
Governments, keen solely on maintaining the immediate, short term civic peace, appeased the religious faction, ceding ever more territory to the religious leadership.

Whereas the response of India and China has been to embrace globalisation, an Islamic world, feeling increasingly threatened by outside economic and cultural pressures, turned inwards and sought to purify itself, creating a bulwark to foreign influence by strict adherence to core cultural and religious traditions.
Societies which involve themselves in too much concern over matters of purity can turn very nasty. 1930s Germany is a ready warning.

Now, if we consider that a society contains a wide spectrum, made up of both liberal and zealous elements, then where does the religiously radical wing go, if the societal mainstream itself becomes increasingly religiously hardline?
Surely, the shelf is of limited width. The more a society tends toward religious zealotry, the more likely the most zealous in said society will fall off the far end of the shelf.

I believe this is exactly how the conditions have come about which now spawn these terrorist organisations.

Religious terrorism is little more than the expression of radicalism by a society`s religious radicals who are bereft of any other means of expressing their radicalism, as much of their fundamentalist ideology has over recent decades been absorbed into mainstream Muslim society.

A radical, a zealot will not simply let himself be re-absorbed into a societal mainstream which adopts his ideas. Far more he will shift his ground, re-establishing equidistance – thus preserving his radical identity.
The more toward religious fundamentalism society moves, so too does the pre-existing religious fundamentalist.

It thus follows, how can you be a zealot in a country of zealots?
You venture where even the ordinarily zealous will not go.
Religious terrorism is an extension of this zealotry. Terrorism is the last bastion of radicalism for those whose radical identity has been eroded away by the mainstream having become more radical.


b) Meanwhile, where is the means by which people are turned into terrorists to be found?
The internet - apparently. Al Qaeda and Islamic State supposedly recruit people online via social media and youtube videos. In fact, they `groom` them into becoming terrorists.
`Vulnerable individuals` are corrupted into sharing the twisted beliefs.


The lingo used to define the supposed route to radicalisation through the internet sounds incredibly familiar. According to current establishment doctrine, pornography can `corrupt` people. What people? `Vulnerable individuals` of course.
The vocabulary regarding radicalisation is almost entirely lifted from anti-pornography propaganda.
The belief that seeing a sexual act in a pornographic video can corrupt the viewer is being transposed wholesale into the world of terrorism.

Meanwhile nobody questions this credo.
Just as the myths about pornography go almost entirely unchallenged, so too has it been accepted that youngsters simply fall victim to seeing Islamists beheading people and thus becoming Islamists themselves.

Gaps in this anti-porn derived perspective are filled with views regarding paedophilia. Where innocent children are `groomed` by sexual predators, now innocent, vulnerable, young men are `groomed` by fanatical recruiters.
This presupposes that the young men are innocent and vulnerable – like children. One accepts by default the usual line forwarded by relatives that this or that young man, prior to his becoming a terrorist, was not an extremist at all (suggesting in fact that their family are not extremist and therefore not worthy of investigation) and had instead been corrupted and mislead by `someone` online.
It most likely belies that the individual concerned - and his wider family - held what most would consider hardline views regarding sharia law, burkhas, women`s rights and infidels, etc.


The truth, I fear, is not very comfortable.

Fundamentalisation has moved most societies in Islamic countries closer to the stance of the Islamists. Religious and cultural tolerance is now in short supply in many of these countries. What marks out the terrorists, if not an abject lack of tolerance?
It therefore takes much less convincing to move an individual situated on the hardline fundamentalist fringe of a fundamentalist society to take that last remaining step into radical terrorism.

I know a number of secular Muslims. But in my time I have also met a number of Muslims who, though outwardly secular, hold quite radical views; preferring the UK to be under sharia law, for example.

The UK`s problem is that living here today we have a large diaspora of Muslims who in many cases maintain very close ties to Pakistan and other Islamic countries. They are thus prone to influence by fundamentalised Islam.
It is this fundamentalisation which poses the great threat. Not youtube videos.


So to my mind, this is not as complicated as many politicians and community leaders would have us believe. Sure, Islam per se is not to blame. Mohammed certainly did not have this in mind when he dictated his revelations some 1400 years ago.
But it cannot be a coincidence that religious terrorism occurs on this scale, across the Muslim world, after a continued religious fundamentalisation across the very same territory over several decades.
The connection between the two seems fairly obvious.

When the religious fervour finally will die down across the Muslim world, is anyone`s guess.
But it is only once the Muslim mainstream normalises, once every Iraqi soldier stops feeling compelled to shout `Allahu aqbar` every time he fires an artillery piece, once globalisation is no longer resisted as though it were a foreign invasion, that we can hope to see religious terrorism end.

For one thing is crystal clear to me. It is Islamic society which has spawned this menace – albeit unwittingly – with its widespread fundamentalisation.

Trying to make out it instead was the internet what done it, may well help some politicians secure some votes, but it will never take us any nearer the truth.

Boris Johnson is a classicist, a man who understands his history. He ought to now better than to spout such nonsense.

My apologies for the long post.
Let`s say it`s the conclusion of a great deal of thinking I`ve been doing on this matter for some time.

braintree    [30716.   Posted 29-Jun-2015 Mon 13:39]
  I think the BFI release was 2009 but I can see why this might have popped up as a story because the previous issue was a dvd/bluray combo. This is the first release as dvd only

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30715.   Posted 29-Jun-2015 Mon 03:02]

Mental gymnastics with terminology seems to the preoccupation of our time. One has to wonder how they will deal with the more substantive problems.

Boris Johnson provides a good example in this morning`s news.


Re Here We go Round the Mulberry Bush. I was just trying to confirm that the current release was the uncut version. I have now added a not to say that it has been uncut since the BFI release in 2005.

sergio    [30714.   Posted 29-Jun-2015 Mon 00:55]
  We must be more intolerant of the intolerant.
-------------Phew! is this some sort of logical circle?-----------

If we are more intolerant then who will tolerate us?
All people are intolerant, but some people are more intolerant than others?

braintree    [30713.   Posted 27-Jun-2015 Sat 13:07]
  Confused about the "shopping" story for Here We go Round the Mulberry Bush. This has been available on disc for 5 years from the BFI

sergio    [30712.   Posted 26-Jun-2015 Fri 01:46]

World`s funniest joke

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30711.   Posted 25-Jun-2015 Thu 15:53]
  Any time from now on when GoDaddy move this site to an Apache server.

braintree    [30710.   Posted 25-Jun-2015 Thu 14:35]
  How long until D-Day?

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30709.   Posted 24-Jun-2015 Wed 21:36]
  The ISP is withdrawing support for Microsoft Server based software on which this forum is based. Unfortunately this spells the end of this forum.

I will have a look around for alternatives

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30708.   Posted 22-Jun-2015 Mon 15:54]
  Good one phantom, it all seems so typical of 21st Century life. As always rules intended to promote harmony, tolerance and politeness get used to generate disharmony, intolerance and strife.

phantom    [30707.   Posted 22-Jun-2015 Mon 13:55]
It is remarkable how supposed liberalism and enlightenment is turning into rank intolerance in this country.

On Saturday, 21 June, we had the `Cumbria Pride` event in Carlisle.
It was one of those officially sanctioned gay festivals.
I`ll never quite understand the point of them, but fair dos. Why not?

However, three preachers arrived in town to protest.
Again, not something I comprehend how anyone can motivate themselves to do this. But again, why not? Rumour has it that these guys are from America and are touring UK gay pride events, telling folks what God thinks.

So far, so good, right? Wrong.

The preachers set themselves up about 100 yards away from the concert area in the city centre.
There really was no reason for any immediate confrontation.
But that was to reckon without the militancy and downright aggression by the `LGBT` crowd.

When I arrived in the town centre, pushing someone in a wheelchair, the mob was in full swing.
The religious yanks were surrounded by a large crowd of militant LGBT demonstrators who shouted down the one who was trying to speak. They chanted and blew whistles at any attempt of his to preach.
Their main chant was `Gay not God! Gay not God!`
The entire purpose was to silence the preacher, or make anything he said unintelligible.
It was very loud, very aggressive.
Orchestrated bullying by a large mob.

Now I am a lifelong atheist. I have thus no religious bias in favour of these street preachers.
Truth be told, I argued for gay rights long before it became a fashionable cause.
But let us reverse the situation. Let us imagine the lone speaker to have been demanding gay rights, then being was surrounded and shouted down by a large group of skin heads.
There would be immediate complaints, denouncing it a hate crime.

But instead the members of this large mob – and it was a mob – no doubt believe they struck a blow for liberty and tolerance. Because they believe that anything they do serves liberty and tolerance.
Being gay, they`re just right, because they are.
So convinced are they of their innate victimhood, they do not believe themselves capable of being the bullies. Martyrs all.

However, all they accomplished here was to perform a blatant act of oppression.
Ironically, on the day they were celebrating their freedom of expression they chose to deny someone else that very same right – in public, with loud, aggressive and boorish behaviour.

As it happened I was pushing someone in a wheelchair through town. Else I would have gone over and stood up for the preachers. I hate bullies and be they gay bullies.

It gets better, any reference I`ve found in the local press and online has laid the blame entirely with the preachers for `disrupting` the gay pride event.
Having seen it first hand, I know they were not disrupting anything. They were merely present.
The main event went on completely undisturbed by the preachers.

But apparently, being present in town, protesting, voicing an opinion not shared by the established orders nowadays means `disrupting` things.

I was there. I saw it with my own eyes.
The only fascist mob present were the LGBT lot.
The only disrupting that was being done was their aggressively shouting down any attempt to speak by someone who dared to disagree with them.

But so indoctrinated with current dogma has everyone become that even the press report the story as a complete inversion of the truth. The preachers were the disruptive element, we`re told.
The gays, apparently, are all much too peace-loving and happy-go-lucky to cause trouble.
Think again.

phantom    [30706.   Posted 21-Jun-2015 Sun 18:58]
  You`ll love this one.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30704.   Posted 31-May-2015 Sun 13:55]
  Not a particularly enlightening contribution from the Daily Mail, but the admission in the headline is surely a first for the rag.

LIZ JONES: Shocking, I know... but could porn be making the world safer?

sergio    [30703.   Posted 25-May-2015 Mon 02:06]

Ruth Evans, has she got a lot of fingers in a lot of pies?

sergio    [30702.   Posted 23-May-2015 Sat 02:20]
  It is really a bit strange, they all seemed be okay with it being recorded but some chairwoman seems to have given `legal advice` that it can`t be posted. After the meeting? Did she advise after the meeting? After the audio was posted?

What actually is the point of it being recorded then?
I don`t know who the chairwoman of that ATVOD/APN meeting was.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30701.   Posted 21-May-2015 Thu 15:06]
  Sergio, it is not entirely surprising, as the previous meeting featured a couple of webmasters openly describing how they were using the age verification procedures to pedal rubbish, that people simply would not buy if they could see a preview.

sergio    [30700.   Posted 21-May-2015 Thu 06:33]
  But surely there must be some get around the `The Chatham House Rule`?
There must be some gaping loop hole. There must be! I know!?? Robots!!!!!
We give the audio to a robot and get them to say/speak it. And it self combusts ...

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30699.   Posted 21-May-2015 Thu 02:13]
  Thanks Sergio.

Isn`t it a disgrace that those being censored by age verification aren`t allowed to hear the latest about what is being implemented.

sergio    [30698.   Posted 20-May-2015 Wed 12:30]
  That ATVOD meeting podcast seems to have had to be taken down due to `legal advice`.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30697.   Posted 19-May-2015 Tue 11:38]
  The latest article from the BBFC archive speaks of the cuts required to the early releases of the original Mad Max.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30696.   Posted 17-May-2015 Sun 02:12]
  Re category cuts.

There are certainly issues with category cuts but I think the distributors have got it more or less sewn up on the issue of enough viewers taking issue at the cuts themselves.

Distributors of horror films, most at risk of customer opposition tend to be aware of this and do as good as job as possible of getting their releases uncut.

Category cuts are generally requested in large market releases where it is unlikely that a significant proportion care about the cuts themselves.

However I do think there is one aspect that may be more amenable to opposition from a large proportion of viewers. And that is the perception that category cuts are diluting films and making them less worth viewing. Perhaps along the lines of Die Hard or Expendables being devalued by being toned down for a 12 rating.

Perhaps we could all contribute by emphasising the view that distributors pushing for lower ratings devalues the films, eg dismissing 12 rated films as kiddy horror or family actions films.

braintree    [30695.   Posted 16-May-2015 Sat 13:55]
  The easiest option is not to buy a cut dvd or Bluray. Often we can import an uncut version from the US or elsewhere. I don`t blame the distributors for category cutting to increase cinema revenue but there`s no excuses for home video and in most cases the cuts don`t happen on the Bluray. I had to purchase The Woman In Black from the US on Bluray as the uncut 15 UK version remains unreleased here. Money talks to so we won`t be able to sway distributors into accepting higher ratings for the cinema but we can also affect their pockets with Bluray too.

Glenn Quagmire    [30694.   Posted 16-May-2015 Sat 05:35]
  Is it worth lobbying distributors when a gets category cuts? We all moan when a film is cut for a certain certificate but do nothing about it. Why don`t we make our voices heard? Lobby the distributors. Email them. Write letters. Attack their behaviour on public forums. Give them bad press. Let`s just do something!

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30693.   Posted 15-May-2015 Fri 02:35]
  Human Centipede III (Final Sequence) has been passed 18 uncut by the BBFC for strong bloody violence, gore, sexual violence for cinema release.

sergio    [30692.   Posted 14-May-2015 Thu 03:36]
  £100 a day! You`re so cheap.
Just found a horror book


Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30691.   Posted 13-May-2015 Wed 03:39]

These are the sort of question that lawyers earn 100 quid an hour debating.

sergio    [30690.   Posted 12-May-2015 Tue 05:55]
  A book can be a video, in this mode it is referred to as an animated book.
Books with a picture on each page is flicked over rapidly giving the video impression.

(provocation mode)

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30689.   Posted 12-May-2015 Tue 00:35]

Yes a gif can be a video, in this mode it is referred to as an animated gif.

On ATVOD determination, it seems to me that there is a fundamental lie about a video being TV like. The EU legislation started off all about linear TV with schedules and programmes. Then somewhere along the line it switched to being DVD like. Surely a downloaded video should be considered as DVD like, not TV like. ATVOD aren`t trying to censor Amazon DVDs, whats the difference to the films being downloadable, it just takes a day longer to get hold of exactly the same digital file.

sergio    [30688.   Posted 11-May-2015 Mon 06:36]
  Is a gif a video?

sergio    [30687.   Posted 11-May-2015 Mon 05:57]
  Mistress R`eal vs ATOVD
`The service provider has requested a review of the Rule 11 and Rule 14 Determinations.`

Pandora`s blog

Still don`t understand ATVOD crap about Itziar Urrutia, in their determination they seem to say that vids on clips4sale can be bought by anyone with a debit card. But that `the service did not meet the statutory definition of an on-demand programme service`. Still a mystery what thought process that was.

Is it `most porn has no narrative` therefore it is not `tv like`?

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30686.   Posted 9-May-2015 Sat 10:53]

Interesting, but maybe inevitable background about Labour potential leadership.

I am wondering if they would be better advised to seek somebody who speaks more about workers and making money, and less about feminist/political correctness issues that make Labour seem very middle class and anti-men.

freeworld    [30685.   Posted 9-May-2015 Sat 04:55]
  Melon Farmers (Dave) {30684. Posted 7-May-2015 Thu 05:11}

I see Dan Jarvis is in the frame as a possible replacement for Miliband.

Some may recall Jarvis as one of the Labour MPs (the other was Sarah Champion) who wished to make the coalition extension to the DPA to certain rape/non consensual images much more inclusive.

"Subsection (2)(c) clearly states that an image will come within the scope of the offence if it portrays something in an “explicit and realistic way”. As Mr Austin explained, that could allow material that is badly acted, such as clearly fictional depictions of rape with actors acting a script, escaping the scope of this legislation. That could be the case even if the works include scenes of relentless, aggressive abuse, threats of physical violence with weapons and forced acts of sex. I understand that the Government plan to issue revised explanatory notes to the Bill to clarify the issue, but with those not yet published, I would very much appreciate any detail the Minister can offer on how that will be done."

"I beg to move amendment 14, in clause 16, page 16, line 30, leave out from ‘explicit’ to end of line 31 and insert

‘way, real or simulated depictions of either—’."

- Dan Jarvis in the CJC bill committee

The DOJ minister, Jeremy Wright , in committee, made it clear to Jarvis and Champion that broadening the bill was not justified and would represent too far reaching an inteference in private life, which the government would not consider.

A prospective new blasphemy law was on the cards from Ed Miliband -

Ed Miliband seemed to be preparing for another attempt to implement a new broad brush "blasphemy" criminalisation if he`d won the election, something which Labour had tried to do before in 2006, making "abusing/insulting" a religion a criminal offense.

The potentially very inclusive wording of the bill was not supported at the time by the Tories. Once again, it was the house of lords which managed to mount an effective defense of civil rights against a commons determined to remove them. The Lords, with massive support in the upper chamber, amended the bill, removing abusive /insulting speech from criminalisation, limiting the law to one where threats deliberately designed to stir up hatred have been used. They also inserted a clause containing an excellent strong defense of the right to free speech in matters of religion -

Amendment 29J Protection of freedom of expression

Nothing in this Part shall be read or given effect in a way which prohibits or restricts discussion, criticism or expressions of antipathy, dislike, ridicule, insult or abuse of particular religions or the beliefs or practices of their adherents, or of any other belief system or the beliefs or practices of its adherents, or proselytising or urging adherents of a different religion or belief system to cease practising their religion or belief system.

When the bill returned to the commons again, Labour tried to have the amendment`s overturned and the original wording of the "religious hatred" bill restored. They lost the attempt by one vote. The result is that the UK has a law criminalising religious hatred, but a strong guarantee of free speech to criticise/mock/insult etc any and every religious belief system; but - things would have been very different without the lord`s input (ditto it was pressure from the lords which managed to make Straw and Blunkett`s adult porn bill less broad than it would otherwise have been). We nearly lost the right of free expression in these areas - they were preserved by the skin of our teeth.People would have risked arrest for expressing their opinions about a religion or religions.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30684.   Posted 7-May-2015 Thu 05:11]

One has to suspect that whichever parties win the election, there will be a fair few more MPs keen to criminalise men for crimes against equality.

DarkAngel5    [30683.   Posted 6-May-2015 Wed 09:37]
  This was on BBC news 24 earlier today, as part of Victoria Derbyshire`s programme.

Seems the police are looking at asking the govt to criminalise paying for sex again, as Northern Ireland bring in laws based on the Swedish model.

This was an excerpt on a much longer feature

This was the debate afterwards

The whole programme can be viewed here

Skip forward to the 21 min mark to see the whole feature.

sergio    [30682.   Posted 27-Apr-2015 Mon 05:16]
  The Hole (2001) Keira Knightley was 15? Flashes boobs?

Available at rated 15.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30681.   Posted 23-Apr-2015 Thu 03:49]

`explicit` seems to bandied around as general purpose negative loaded term by moralists and campaigners.

In reality it is related to context. for instance sex in a TV drama could be described as implicit if a couple is shown drawing over the covers before a fade, but explicit if you see sexual movements, even below the covers. Here the point is the story line point as to whether the characters have sex or not.

However if the context is porn, one knows that sex will be depicted somehow, then explicit should mean hardcore whilst implicit would be softcore.

sergio    [30680.   Posted 23-Apr-2015 Thu 01:04]
  Is the phrase `sexually explicit` meaningless?

`and another in which a naked woman lay on her back with her legs apart and her hands covering her genitals, the images were sexually explicit.`

If she covers her genitals then how can it be related to the meaningless phrase `sexually explicit`?

Do you mean somehow it can be construed as relating to `sex`?

Is someone naked `sexually explicit`?

Therumbler    [30679.   Posted 20-Apr-2015 Mon 16:48]

Police raids on saunas has negative consequences that were easily predicted.

Also research commonly used to support the Swedish model found to be questionable in that "People who have been using it (presumably without reading it) probably need to decide whether the study – once read beyond the abstract – shows that New Zealand and Sweden have pretty much the same outcomes in terms of ‘sex trafficking’, or whether it’s actually so unreliable and badly put together as to be functionally useless (ding ding ding)."

braintree    [30678.   Posted 19-Apr-2015 Sun 13:38]
  Regarding the quiz - it would be interesting to see what the BBFC would make of the Hammer movie "Never Take Sweets from a Stranger" should it ever appear here again.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30677.   Posted 19-Apr-2015 Sun 12:28]

I would guess it is more the unviable age verification rules that would suffocate dreamsofspanking rather than the yearly censorship charge.

Perhaps Pandora Blake would stand more chance than most of subscribers paying up without being able to see the goods. Perhaps a few people would take the political activism as a means of proving good faith in buying goods unseen.

I remember one webmaster at a UK conference saying that he thinks that age verification is a good thing as his content is shite. If he had to show a sample free, he would get no customers. With up ATVOD rules he extracts the money up front and only then does the customer realise that he/she has wasted the money.

ATVOD`s rules are a scammer`s charter

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30676.   Posted 19-Apr-2015 Sun 12:19]
  Glenn Quagmire

Blood and Black Lace was heavily cut for a 1965 X rating. It was this cut version that was passed 15 by the BBFC. The uncut version was 18 rated by the BBFC. There can`t be many films from the mid sixties that have managed to maintain an 18 rating right up to the current day.

How about a quiz:

Which is the oldest film that has had a 21st century BBFC 18 rating?

I don`t know the answer, but my best guess would be Blood Feast from 1963

sergio    [30675.   Posted 19-Apr-2015 Sun 07:46]
  Although a bit miserablist and fascist, Rachel Johnson in her column gets hot about `gambling` and then suggests a national insurance number to be used to restrict players to being adult.
What do you think? Foolproof?

sergio    [30674.   Posted 19-Apr-2015 Sun 03:37]
  Is Pandora Blake - dreamsofspanking - going to be charged £137 or £183 per year by ATVOD?

Glenn Quagmire    [30673.   Posted 17-Apr-2015 Fri 04:33]
  I`m a little bit confused as to the release of "Blood And Black Lace". It was a 15 certificate and they`ve now upgraded it to an 18? I know the board have done this with PG films to a 12 but I`ve never heard of them raising a certificate from a 12 to 15 or 15 to 18. And I`m not including extras which can raise a certificate.

braintree    [30672.   Posted 15-Apr-2015 Wed 13:38]
  My point is that the BBFC certificate may make as much difference as it did in the 80`s when BBFC X Certificate versions of movies were found by courts to be obscene. This happened with several films IIRC. We already know that What the Peeper Saw had to be recut by the BBFC in 1978 when a new law came in so with this new law who`s to say current BBFC versions may not now be considered lawful. One would hope the common sense missing during the video nasties stupidity might not be absent today but this is the British Justice system we`re talking about here- the one that not so long ago was on course to prosecute a guy for having a so called bestiality video in his possession without noticing the animal in the video could actually talk.
This new law does seem to fly in the face of the BBFC who for quite some time have been claiming their aim is to make sure where possible that adults can decide for themselves what they want to watch. The DPA arrived in a form nobody asked for - has succeeded in prosecuting nobody it was designed to prosecute yet has prosecuted people for content that was never part of the original intended law and now has amendments that nobody asked for. When our MP`s go on their paid for freebies to other countries on so called fact finding missions why do they never visit countries like Holland and Denmark and ask what makes the UK so special it needs protection from things these other countries have no problems with . Apart from child porn pretty much anything goes in other parts of Europe yet society hasn`t crumbled. Look at the stuff Denmark has been turning out since 1969 and yet they`re still in one piece. Nobody looks at this because it doesn`t fit the UK Big Brother agenda

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30671.   Posted 15-Apr-2015 Wed 00:20]

Surely Baise Moi is in the realm of films that could lead to your persecution if the police decided were to trawl through your PC or DVD collection. However in this case the DVD happens to have an uncut BBFC certificate which makes it OK under the Dangerous Pictures Act

braintree    [30670.   Posted 14-Apr-2015 Tue 12:52]
  Presumably the new law won`t affect the Death Wish films as the rapes are not explicit enough to be considered pornographic but what happens to Baise Moi? Definitely a hardcore sequence. And I guess I`ll be going back to prison if the authorities find my dvd of Sex Wish.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30669.   Posted 11-Apr-2015 Sat 18:47]

Yes In the Realm of the Senses is now totally uncut since the 2011 Optimum release, with the previous reframing no longer required.

braintree    [30668.   Posted 10-Apr-2015 Fri 13:31]
  The sequence of Lester fondling Ekland has been included complete in all versions I`ve seen of the movie. Youtube has clips on there from VCI and that scene is complete where he places his hands over her breasts. I expect the BBFC would edit it out. The second questionable scene is where Lester gets her to strip in exchange for information. The US VHS did not include this but the long version on the dvd and the Bluray both include it. The final scene is the one where she gets into bed with him. This is uncut on the long version on the dvd but shortened on the cut version . The Bluray has the montage over most of the sequence. Neither of these 2 more dodgy scenes have been placed on Youtube by VCI.

Is "In the Realm of the Senses" still reframed or have the BBFC passed it uncut now?

sergio    [30667.   Posted 10-Apr-2015 Fri 02:48]
  I have to remind myself

In the Realm of the Senses has been passed by the BBFC with the tugging scenes of the little penis of the young and delicate child.

sergio    [30666.   Posted 10-Apr-2015 Fri 02:25]
  braintree[30665] I am not familiar with the Sylvia Kristel scene.
I`ve seen some youtube clips (yes, youtube!) that show scenes from `What the Peeper Saw`.
They show the child naked in the bath (genitals covered I think with a toy) and a scene where the child is about to fondle the clothed breasts of that gorgeous blonde Britt Ekland. IS about to, but we don`t see any contact. Is that the part that is cut?
Is a child fondling a woman`s clothed breasts a potential hazard?

I only know of the Japanese movie Ai no korida/In the Realm of the Senses where I think I read that the mentally ill woman yanks the penis of the small boy and the scene is cut (reframed) by the BBFC.

braintree    [30665.   Posted 9-Apr-2015 Thu 14:04]
  Sergio - the bootleg quality and the US habit of Public Domain releases on both VHS and dvd indicate to me that neither the VHS or dvd releases were official in that the contents of the release were supplied or paid for by the films owner. US law used to state that copyright needed renewing every 28 years. Would it be surprising if it turned out that copyright on this film was not renewed - which allows for legal bootleg releases in the US. The Bluray on the other hand while not perfect is clearly a good quality 35mm print. The VHS looks second generation at best and both versions on dvd look vhs quality. I`m not sure the dodgy scene could be said to be censored as such. The history of the film does make it look likely that alternate shots etc were filmed with slightly different versions shown in different countries and I`m guessing that as the film became a bit of a hot potato not that many years after it was made that the owners didn`t care about the original elements and it might also be one of those movies where ownership has changed over the years so what remains of the movie is moved about so eventually all that is left is a set of different prints in differing conditions with none being very well preserved due to the fact that due to its content home video and tv broadcasts were not something the film ever got which is why it was so difficult for VCI to get a good quality version let alone one that is practically complete. This is all guess work though. The obscurity of the movie and the fact that nobody seemed to know this new release wasn`t quite complete makes this look like it really has been forgotten by everybody including those who own it.

The Televista release shown is in fact the Substance release I had with 2 versions on .My box had the Substance company details on it. Televista are apparently well known for releasing unofficial bootleg titles ( they have a bootleg dvd of the BBC`s Bernard and the Genie amongst their releases). Another pointer that the dvd was a PD bootleg was the cover which is identical to the VHS right down to the shape of the image. It was just like the VHS cover copied to a dvd box but with no effort to fill the shape of the new case.
According to the TV Times this film was aired by Thames tv in 1975 but who knows what version that would be.
I really would love to see interview footage from Mark Lester and Britt Ekland to see what they make of it now. How the tabloids have never picked up on it to attack Ekland is a mystery. I doubt you`d go to prison but the BBFC would certainly edit the dodgy scene in its entirety I would think. The shorter version also omits entirely the sequence where Lester forces Ekland to strip in front of him in exchange for information and I suspect the BBFC would remove most of that as its clear that Lester was present when the scene was shot and Ekland gets naked. Similarly the UK version of Private Lessons with Sylvia Kristel was badly cut by the BBFC even though the male actor was clearly of age but they censored it because the impression the film tries to give is that the boy is underage so some of the key scenes like the bath sequence are removed. I`m not certain but I get the impression that when this film was released it may have been uncut here as it falls into the teenage boy fantasy type story and that its only been cut for dvd due to the current UK obsession with underage sex.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30664.   Posted 9-Apr-2015 Thu 02:11]
  Re What the Peeper Saw

Thanks Braintree, an interesting update which I added to MF.

Presumably the censored scene in the VCI DVD prevents people being sent straight to prison but maybe a warning is required about the uncut releases noted.

Re Human Centipede 3.

I am looking forward to the Daily Mail reports. Maybe another `Sickest Film Ever`. I should start a book on how many times the Daily Mail uses the word `vile` in connection with reports on HC3.

sergio    [30663.   Posted 9-Apr-2015 Thu 00:51]
I am confused
` I think this may be the films first ever official release.`
The vhs is unofficial? Or is it first ever official dvd release?

`Substance went onto release a dvd with 2 versions on`
There is one from Studio: Televista on dvd
Is that the 2 version dvd ?

Can you get to prison and not pass go if in possession of this dvd?

goatboy    [30662.   Posted 8-Apr-2015 Wed 19:08]
  Interesting to see if any government ever went after mainstream websites over porn; eg there is a huge amount of porn on twitter but it`s not really noticeable unless you start looking for accounts with `xxx` in their names. Those sites would presumably be more politically difficult to go after than sites where porn is the sole point.

Human Centipede 3 has a USA release date, May 22nd (Cinemas + VOD) so you`d assume the bbfc will be seeing it soon. I`m sure I speak for everyone here when I say I hope the bbfc enjoy the movie!

braintree    [30661.   Posted 7-Apr-2015 Tue 12:57]
  Regarding What the Peeper Saw , the scene in question is included in the Bluray but after it starts the old footage showing the section where Ekland gets into bed with Lester - and she`s clearly naked - has a montage placed over that bit although the soundtrack continues just as it does in the full version. I think this may be the films first ever official release. The original US VHS was the drastically shortened version and was not very good quality. Substance went onto release a dvd with 2 versions on . One was the short version and the other was the most complete version ever and includes the controversial moments missing from the Bluray although both versions on the dvd are very obviously transferred from a domestic tape source. Once I alerted VCI to the missing footage the guy in charge did confirm that they had searched high and low for the best possible source and while the Bluray doesn`t look as good as a regular 35mm film would its the first time the film has looked anything close to being official. It`s still worth getting for it`s notoriety but a shame that VCI didn`t look at the dvd beforehand - they could then at least have added the footage albeit in far lesser quality. As its a Limited Edition and unlikely to appear elsewhere you should get it while you can if you have the slightest interest in it.

sergio    [30660.   Posted 7-Apr-2015 Tue 07:52]
  That human rights act, seems to me like a fair chunk of gobbledygook.

`Article 18: Limitations on use of Restrictions on Rights

The restrictions permitted under this Convention to the said rights and freedoms shall not be applied for any purpose other than those for which they have been prescribed.`

You`ve got a right to do something only if there is no law against it.

phantom    [30659.   Posted 4-Apr-2015 Sat 16:33]
  Melon Farmers (Dave) {30656}
I hate to say I told you so, but wasn`t that precisely what I predicted some time ago?

The most depressing thing is that we are heading towards censorial nirvana with the fatal inevitability of Greek tragedy.

The end goal is clear to see.
One is simply rehearsing the arguments which will lead to a giant firewall by which to ban all non-UK adult content.

Calling it `Tory nastiness` really serves no purpose.
Point me to one single party who are not intent on doing it.

phantom    [30658.   Posted 4-Apr-2015 Sat 16:27]
  Melon Farmers (Dave) [30657]

""Anyone whose body mass index... is below a certain level will not be able to work as a catwalk model," it said."


"The deputy previously said models would have to present a medical certificate showing a BMI - the ratio of height to weight - of at least 18 before being hired for a job."

Those statements are taken from the BBC link I gave.
They seem pretty unambiguous.

It`s not just the BBC.

The Guardian:

This really doesn`t seem to be the media spinning an exaggerated yarn based on a half truth, but simply a reporting of fact.
France has banned skinny models.

The message is clear: Skinny models have no rights. Because seeing skinny models is bad for you.
I`m surprised the French parliament hasn`t followed its conviction through to its natural conclusion.
Skinny women ought to wear burkhas in public by law, in order not to corrupt other women`s minds by visual exposure.
After all, if it corrupts on the catwalk, why not on the street?

What is the betting that obese MPs like Dianne Abbott will be all in favour of introducing such a law in Britain?

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30657.   Posted 4-Apr-2015 Sat 02:42]

I read that France had decided not to ban slim models. The law will target more positive incitement to skininess, notably pro-ana websites. i will have another look round though

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30656.   Posted 4-Apr-2015 Sat 01:13]
  Is this new Tory nastiness about age verification for porn or just a rehash of the current ATVOD approach?

Javid said: "If you want to buy a hardcore pornography DVD in a store you need to prove your age to the retailers".

"With the shift to online, children can access adult content on websites without restriction, intentionally or otherwise".

"That is why we need effective controls online that apply to UK and overseas. This is about giving children the best start in life".

phantom    [30655.   Posted 3-Apr-2015 Fri 17:22]
  So here we are. Another example of truly astonishing censorship.
Feminism at its finest.
France has banned skinny fashion models.
Apparently this follows suit from countries such as Italy.

Why? Well, apparently it promotes an `unhealthy body image` to women.
Immediately one is pointed to anorexia and bulimia.
Because of course that is the big body issue of the day. - Not obesity.
Suffice to say, fat models (in danger of diabetes and heart disease) are still perfectly permissible under French and Italian law.

We`ve all heard the feminists screeching about body image.
Hell, recently there have even been complaints that Cinderella`s waist in the new Disney movie is too slim.
(I kid you not.
I am in no doubt that, after the two fashion capitals of the world have banned skinny models, we will soon see legislation advanced here in Britain too.

But please, let`s think about this.
Feminism is supposed to be about empowering women, isn`t it? I read that as its purpose being to provide more women with more opportunities.
Last time I looked skinny women are women too. Have they no rights?

If a fat woman were to be refused access to a bus for being fat, there would be a riot in the media.
But refusing a thin woman the right to have a job walking catwalks is applauded.

How has this happened ?
Once more feminism finds itself advocating a policy which actually reduces the rights of women.
After all, a section of women have just lost their existing right to be high paid fashion models.
So a new glass ceiling – introduced in the name of feminism!

We are again in the sticky territory of offence.
Many women claim `offence` at seeing these skinny models held up as ideals – because they themselves are neither skinny, nor slim.
So these models` right to earn a living must be curbed to protect other women from said `offence`.
Clearly, offence trumps everything these days. Even your right to earn a living.

Moreover, the theory that people can be corrupted by seeing images is upheld as sheer fact. Women see skinny models, thus they turn anorexic. Does that thinking sound familiar?

The obvious irony that skinny models ought to be persecuted during an obesity epidemic in the western world seems lost to just about every politician.

So there you go. Don`t be thin. It`s the newest crime of our time. If you`re a girl.

braintree    [30654.   Posted 3-Apr-2015 Fri 14:01]
  It`s nearly 10 years since I spent 8 weeks at her majestys pleasure thanks to selling dvd`s of hardcore porn recorded from satellite , specifically because some of the films included "fisting". As I didn`t fight the charges ( I was guilty of others) my prosecution went down as another success against fisting content. In the last few years a couple of brave souls fought the Obscene Publications Act on fisting and both won their cases . The BBFC admit they are aware of these cases yet they continue to cut such footage because the CPS still include fisting in their list of obscene acts. Why don`t any of the studios releasing this content make an appeal . It was an appeal around 2000 that lead to hardcore becoming legal and how can the CPS continue to go against the court verdicts? A successful appeal will lead to the CPS needing to rewrite their rulebooks.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30653.   Posted 3-Apr-2015 Fri 08:30]
  Re lies

A fascinating perspective. The rules of political correctness back this up. For instance it is perfectly acceptable and encouraged to spout any old bollox about what adult entertainment may `cause` men to do, the more ludicrous the claim, the better. And the PC rules then demand that all adherents support these lies no matter how blatant.

It is so commonplace, that every person attaching to acause now expects to be able to bully everyone else into submission. It is becoming a very fractious world.

Therumbler    [30652.   Posted 2-Apr-2015 Thu 15:11]

Read it about the NSPCC`s recent survey. It was not at all scientific and used a marketing company to get results.

phantom    [30651.   Posted 2-Apr-2015 Thu 06:17]
  re: Children`s `charities` get nasty about internet censorship...

I too met the children`s charities campaign on internet porn with disbelief.
The BBC reported it as though the charities reference to `depression` and `pressure to have sex early` as effects of exposure to porn were established fact and not mere opinion forwarded by the charities in question.
The deliberate blurring of lines in this field is now becoming endemic. Nobody ever speaks what they know to be the truth anymore, but instead all engage in this presentation of pseudo-facts in furtherance of their agenda.

And yes, I can only heartily agree with Alan`s comments.
The Perrin case is one which pops up time and time again. Let us not forget that the DPA also used the Perrin case as a basis.
The fact that the case itself represents an outrage of pure injustice does not seem to bother anyone among the ranks of those using it so freely as a supposed legal foundation for their prohibition demands.

It seems to me that to base one`s demands on a legal injustice is quite telling.
For one, it illustrates that one is concerned more by ends than by means. As long as one gets one`s way, one is not really that concerned how it is achieved.
Much the same can also be said about the use of pseudo-evidence about `depression` and `pressure on girls` caused by porn. Lying it appears, is acceptable, if it leads to the goal one desires.

The above is ironic, if one considers that this is supposed to be about what is good for children.
For what could in fact be a worse example to set to children, than to seek to achieve one`s aims by deceits and injustice?

What is the greater evil? Pornography or a society in which even charities lie and connive in order to achieve the personal desires of those who run them?

It was professor Harry G. Frankfurt who wrote a book called `On Bullshit`.
In it he contends that truth has an inherent value to any society. That if all and sundry lie, this damages our societies. For if everyone lies, everyone expects everyone else to lie. Nothing can be believed anymore.
PR agencies and politicians have in effect ruined what was once a fairly truthful society. Now everything is `presentation`. So if one need bend the truth a little to achieve a better impression, so be it. Thus, no company CEO, no minister of the crown, not even a bishop, ever speak the truth anymore. They present. So too now apparently do charities.

The simple truth is that this ubiquity of PR speak, or `bullshit` as Frankfurt puts it, is many times more damaging than any effect pornography could ever exact on us.

Lying is more harmful to society than flesh.

freeworld    [30650.   Posted 29-Mar-2015 Sun 14:33]
  phantom [30649. Posted 29-Mar-2015 Sun 07:20]
SNP legislation is nationalising people`s children - the level of state intrusion being introduced is horrifying - the agenda to replace the family with the state`s "benign care" is even more well advanced where these cod nationalists, until recently led by a well fed, wealthy "ex Maoist", hold power.

Yes indeed, the advance of the Stasi state, or, more aptly, the advance of the Common Purpose/Frankfurt school institution long marchers state.

Read and shudder...

phantom    [30649.   Posted 29-Mar-2015 Sun 07:20]
  When is a threat `help`, I wonder?
When it`s from a school head teacher, apparently.

The Stasi society advances on and on.
Here are head teachers effectively volunteering to turn state informers, in order to `help` people.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30648.   Posted 28-Mar-2015 Sat 12:25]
  Re Commando

The Director`s cut contains extra violence originally cut in the US for an R rating during the tool shed scene:

-The pitchfork killing features additional reaction from the soldier as he dies and an extra shot as he slumps to the floor
-Schwarzenegger throws a second circular saw blade which embeds itself into the neck of a bad guy, lots of blood, and more reaction from the soldier as he puts is hands to his neck.
-The guy who is axed in the groin is shown in agony longer
-The guy with the severed arm is seen lying on the floor, stump in the air, screaming for a second or two longer and for an extra shot when is crawling on the ground.

So the main censorship UK timeline is

1985 cut in the US for an R rating
1985-2001 further cut by the BBFC and later even more cuts appeared as German version was released in the UK
2007 Directors Cut passed uncut by the BBFC but not released
2007 Directors Cut released in the US
2008 BBFC cuts waived to the theatrical version so that the UK release of that year was the same as the US R rated version
2015 Directors Cut released in the UK (with the uncut BBFC certificate from 2007)

braintree    [30647.   Posted 27-Mar-2015 Fri 14:36]
  Re todays story about Commando. I`m assuming there is more to the Directors Cut than restoring BBFC cuts as these were waived in 2007 ( as the story says) and the 2008 Bluray restores all these cuts and is the same original theatrical version as released on Bluray elsewhere. Is the DC title perhaps for MPAA cuts restored rather than BBFC ones?

freeworld    [30646.   Posted 25-Mar-2015 Wed 05:59]
  Sabreman64 {30645. Posted 25-Mar-2015 Wed 04:35}
Every time somebody knuckles under to these sanctimonious little Torquemadas they gain strength and confidence. It`s way past time they were told in no uncertain terms to mind their own business and stop their interference in our lives. Unfortunately the political class/ Establishment panders to this screechy minority continually - because it`s noisy and persistent, but they are far from representative of public opinion. A concerted fightback needs to be made against these heretic hunting bullies, which starts with not caving in to their noise, intimidation and harassment.

Sabreman64    [30645.   Posted 25-Mar-2015 Wed 04:35]

Yawn. Another day, another ad banned by the damn ASA for being `sexist` or for causing `widespread offence`. Of course, the feminazis at Object were one of the complainers, despite the fact that they would never buy the Daily Star anyway.

Honestly, all this fuss over `sexism`, `objectification` and `sexualisation` of women, and other such nonsense just makes me want to go out and buy as many non-PC and `sexist` books, magazines and other products as possible as a way of sticking two fingers up at all these miserable killjoy whingers.

freeworld    [30644.   Posted 25-Mar-2015 Wed 02:57]
  Rearing it`s ugly head again. Ulster will have it in June, I think. Those taking an interest in such things at the time will recall the Brown government moving towards the "Swedish model" just before it lost power in 2010 - with the prospect of a Labour government again in May, we could be see its resurrection as party policy ( McTaggart was defeated in her last "private" attempt not long ago).

phantom    [30643.   Posted 23-Mar-2015 Mon 19:32]
  I`m sure they did cut those words, goatboy.
In fact I remember to which two episodes you refer there. (and two episodes, given that they`ve made over 150 episodes so far is very, very tame)
But the fact is that a great deal more than `whore` and `slut` is cut.
Big Bang is just about as mainstream and inoffensive as you can get in a sitcom these days.
The fact that Channel 4 sees fit to cut something out of just about every episode in pre-watershed broadcast is cause for concern.
I would class this series as in tune with modern taste and sensibilities as one can get.
To find fault even in this, one must really try hard.
But channel 4 manages.
One wonders just who encourages them to do this...

goatboy    [30642.   Posted 23-Mar-2015 Mon 17:48]
  C4 cuts the words `whore` and `slut` from the pre watershed Big Bang, they`ve always been cut in the 6/6.30pm E4 slots.

phantom    [30641.   Posted 23-Mar-2015 Mon 16:15]
  re: Big Bang Theory

It`s been going on for some time. I believe i myself have mentioned the cutting of Big Bang dialogue once or twice on here.
It is utterly incomprehensible to me why something as innocent as this sitcom would be cut, but it is happening on a daily basis.
It seems any screening before the watershed has any line which is even mildly suggestive removed.
The very fact that something so mild can be deemed worthy of cutting does not bode well for any other TV content.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30640.   Posted 22-Mar-2015 Sun 01:31]
  Braintree, re Don`t lose your head.

I added the note. I couldn`t find anything else on the cuts, so given the difference in production set up, then it does seem likely that the company treated the cuts differently to most Carry On films, and kept the cut material for future use. Thanks for the info.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30639.   Posted 20-Mar-2015 Fri 12:55]
  Phantom re D & G

A Spiked article about the PC bullies launching into D&G

phantom    [30638.   Posted 19-Mar-2015 Thu 19:43]
  re: Aw...poor little things...

Stunning. So police officers may have to attend a real murder scene, detailing all the real gore.
But to view some `extreme porn` may be too much for them.

Better yet, the judge insisted it was not a `victimless crime`.
Who, pray, is the victim, m`lud? The horse?

braintree    [30637.   Posted 17-Mar-2015 Tue 15:19]
  Re: todays story about cuts to Carry On - Don`t Lose Your Head.
The line "You`ve always had magnificent balls" is said to be cut but I`m sure its included. That very line is included in the opening montage of the theatrical "That`s Carry On" so unless it`s not in the original film and the cut clip is only seen in the compilation ( which was made 10 years later) it would indicate that at least that cut is restored to the film. It was the first or second of the Rank films , now owned by ITV and it wasn`t until Carlton/ITV got hold of them that the original 15 version of Carry On England was seen again. Uncut for an AA it lasted about a week in the cinema where it bombed and was withdrawn and recut for an A. It was the A version that played on tv , was released on video etc. But the uncut version was retained so perhaps the uncut versions of the other Rank films are also in the vaults. When Carlton released England on dvd well over a decade ago it was something of a treat to actually get a choice to watch either version. Shame it had to be one of the worst of the series. The disc with dvd/magazine collection only included one version (not sure which one)

phantom    [30636.   Posted 17-Mar-2015 Tue 08:08]
  I found the story of Elton John regards Dolce & Gabbana interesting.
The BBC gave it wall to wall coverage on TV and radio.

At its heart it was a call for punitive action, because someone had voiced an opinion.

It perfectly chimes with the current trends of militancy whereby some seek to silence those who hold an opposing opinion.

The fact that Dolce was accused of being `anti-gay` for his comments when he is in fact himself homosexual shows just how insane the claims here have become.

You must conform to the mainstream view or people will seek to silence you. Here Dolce & Gabbana are threatened with economic sanctions unless they publicly repent and confirm that they `think right`.

There can be no doubt that we are looking at a form of censorship here. One facilitated by the new phenomenon of social media.

It seems to have struck next to none of the celebs lining up behind Elton John that maybe Dolce - in a supposedly free society - has every right to voice his opinion.
Whether one actually agrees with him or not, surely is irrelevant.
The man may say or think what he likes - without people `taking offence` and then seeking to exact their vengeance.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30635.   Posted 17-Mar-2015 Tue 01:37]

Never has so much power been granted to censorship by private company and they impose it so incredibly arbitrarily and ruthlessly. They can trash an entire company in a computer generated decision. Yet no one seems to bother opposing this except for the very few high profile cases where the naff rules get mass publicity.

braintree    [30634.   Posted 15-Mar-2015 Sun 14:13]
  Seems definite that Ebay will not allow listings for the Arrow UK release of Nekromantik. After someone else reported having theirs removed I put it down to traditional ebay incompetence but when I listed mine it too was removed . Their email explains it was removed under their "Violent Material" conditions. Not a single listing for the UK set but quite a few for the US release. I expect its still down to ebay incompetence and remains a flagged title going back to the days when it would have raised eyebrows and they`ve not bothered to remove it from their forbidden list. I had it happen to a dvd of I Spit On your Grave once when I listed the uncut US disc. But I just relisted that and it sold without a hitch. Will sell this one on Amazon at some point instead. Don`t think ebay would genuinely ban a title officially UK classified by the BBFC

Re todays Disney story. At the moment Disney is being run by idiots it would seem as their choices in titles to release on Bluray or not would indicate. No 3D discs in the US , many titles not released at all in the UK and of course the "restoration" of their animated titles has become farcical. But to the main issue of today which is smoking- and one of their earlier movies Melody Time was released on dvd quite some time ago and one of the characters in it Pecos Bill has been "adjusted" to remove the cigarette that he has in his mouth all the time so this smoking ban is not new. Curiously the US disc is edited but the existing UK dvd contains the unedited version.

phantom    [30633.   Posted 14-Mar-2015 Sat 17:36]
  re: Offsite Article: Are you reading too many books by straight white men?

The mind truly boggles.
I have always been staggered at there being a perceived need for a Bailey`s `Women`s prize for Fiction` these days.
But a call to boycott white male writers is so surreal it beggars belief.

Have any of these feminist darlings calling for such a boycott (or awarding female authors` prizes) ever heard of Agatha Christie, The Bronte Sisters, J.K.Rowling, Barbara Taylor Bradford or Jane Austen?

How could anyone ever conclude that women are discriminated against in writing and publishing?

One wonders. One truly wonders what goes on in their little heads. :)

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30632.   Posted 13-Mar-2015 Fri 19:13]
  Thanks goatboy, I will take a look

Maybe a bit political as opposed to politically correct, but I thought this interview over a pint with Nigel Farage is just about the most refreshing political piece I have read during the current election campaign.

goatboy    [30631.   Posted 13-Mar-2015 Fri 16:29]
  A guy was jailed for 4 months in Glasgow for singing the song `The Billy Boys` in public.

Slightly excessive. Have one hell of a task banning all songs with discriminatory language ultimately. Wonder if they`ll try to lift Eminem next time he`s over? ;)

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30630.   Posted 13-Mar-2015 Fri 04:34]
  No it isn`t odd. It just should be.

It may be quite fun to see a little unregulated electioneering on YouTube, just allowing them to swear at the opposition would be amusing.

phantom    [30629.   Posted 12-Mar-2015 Thu 07:41]
  On yesterday`s news (might have been Newsnight) the BBC alluded to how the political parties having a right ding dong online with negative campaign ads and video clips.
How so?
Because the same rules do not apply to political ads online as do for broadcasts and advertising hoardings.

Odd isn`t it? Given that the parties in question always claim to be very keen for the same rules which apply to the `real world` also to apply online.

But apparently not if it concerns them.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30628.   Posted 10-Mar-2015 Tue 04:49]

Indeed this linkage between the viewer and the rapist has been a major issue for the BBFC. Strangely this time round it doesn`t figure so much in the BBFC`s write up of their ban. Maybe because the details portrayed are not quite so clear. This time round seems more related to the relentless thuggery coupled with the racist setting.

Glenn Quagmire    [30627.   Posted 9-Mar-2015 Mon 10:33]
  I think I can see why the BBFC have banned "Hate Crime". I`ve seen the film and it seems to me that the biggest problem with the film is that it`s shot through a video camera so, in effect, you are the perpetrator. There`s a scene where a woman is raped over a pool table and the rapist films it. You see it from his viewpoint. It`s why they cut the remake of "I Spit On Your Grave".

phantom    [30626.   Posted 2-Mar-2015 Mon 18:14]
  re: Adultery law is found to be cheating on the people...

"The law is unconstitutional as it infringes people`s right to make their own decisions on sex and secrecy and freedom of their private life, violating the principle banning excessive enforcement under the constitution."

Must be nice to have a written constitution. What lucky few the South Koreans are.

Er, didn`t we fight for their freedom?

Ironic, isn`t it?

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30625.   Posted 1-Mar-2015 Sun 09:57]

A fascinating analysis that is very persuasive and I concur with most of it.

I don`t think you will be far wrong that the prevention strategies will be prove to be a blind alley and terrorism will continue unabated.

I would like to add though that more likely factors of religion, culture, money, opportunity and general intolerance may be equally futile to identify. These are the sort of factors, even if correctly identified, would take generations to lead people away from. I rather fear that there is nothing much we can do to make the problem go away.

phantom    [30624.   Posted 28-Feb-2015 Sat 18:50]
  I wonder. Is it only me who thinks this?
A doctrine seems to have sneaked into the nation`s thinking on terrorism, which seems to have originated from a rather familiar field – censorship of porn and violence.

Here`s what I mean.
The BBFC-style pseudo-scientific nonsense of people aping what they see in photos and film has effectively been accepted as official doctrine by the entire establishment.
Hence we`ve seen a whole raft of irrational legislation trying to bar the mere sight of things which might `harm` us.

But this thinking seems now to be polluting other areas of policy. (Always a danger with strictly doctrinal thinking.)

Where are all the Islamists getting radicalised? Why, on the internet, of course.
They see stuff and then become raving lunatics, foaming at the mouth.
Does this not sound oddly familiar?

Do we really believe that watching some preacher spouting the need to kill and destroy on youtube would turn anyone into some mindless drone wanting to chop people`s heads off.
Surely, such preachers can only preach to the converted.
Nobody else will ever grant them any credence.

Once again the notion of `vulnerable, young men` rears its ugly head.
Oh, of course it would not affect you and me. No. Only the `vulnerable`.

But I hold that no reasonable Muslim, no matter how devout, will watch some bloke in Yemen mouthing off about the need to slaughter and will then turn into a `sleeper` waiting for an opportune moment to attack the London Underground.
It`s just blatant nonsense.

But everyone in power subscribes to it.

The government (who want more powers over the net), the schools and Muslim society (who want to be absolved of any responsibility) and the press (who hate the internet with a passion, due to it gradually destroying their industry).

So the internet it is and something must be done.

The truth is that Islamist propaganda on the net is ludicrous.
Despite our being told how `sophisticated` it is, it is fairly idiotic, put together by people who have watched a few too many Rambo movies and think ninjas are cool.
If I see one more example of Jihadis dressed in black, attempting an assault course in which one of the obstacles is a burning circus ring through which to jump, I`ll have a seizure.

And if some bearded chap, trying to look regal, talking to camera, trying to explain why Allah perfectly justifies the killing of anything that moves, is supposed to be convincing, then why are not droves of other sects more successful?

If it`s that easy, then surely all the established churches, the moonies, jehova`s witnesses or the scientologists need to do is upload plenty of youtube clips and thousands will come flocking to their ranks. After all, it`s that simple to brainwash people into thinking what you think, if only it`s on camera.

Unless it`s all nonsense.

Unless, the wholesale embrace of BBFC-style doctrine into mainstream politics has led us down a blind alley.

Having taken a foolish idea, - namely that watching zombie films can turn you into a psycho-killer and that watching porn will turn you into a rapist, - and having applied it to a different subject we have drawn a totally wrong conclusion.

The war with the terrorists is not online.
Pointing to the fact that the various nutjobs who have killed had visited sites containing hate preachers or other pages expressing sympathy with terrorists means nothing.
Of course they visited such sites. Because they were Islamist nutjobs.
What other sites would we expect Islamist nutjobs to visit?

It`s the old fallacy of pointing to rapists having viewed porn.
Again the blatant transference of thinking is obvious.

The problem is that in the case of terrorism getting it wrong could literally mean the difference between life or death for some.

The problem of radicalisation of Muslims lies not on the net. It never has done. It never will do.
Finding where this radicalisation truly occurs is of the utmost importance.

But charging down blind allies due to the flawed thinking of self-appointed `experts` of mind-corruption at the BBFC in this case is not merely wasteful, but downright dangerous.

Opinions welcome....

Therumbler    [30623.   Posted 27-Feb-2015 Fri 16:50]
  I`ve had a brief search through Google and I can`t see any articles referring to this new law affecting Manwin and similar sites that might be based there.

Then again, how many times has Melonfarmers and a relatively few other sites/commentators looked at laws with big implications that have been ignored elsewhere until they`ve already been passed? Like they recent UK online porn laws, which were ignored by the media until they had come into effect.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30622.   Posted 27-Feb-2015 Fri 00:35]

I didn`t release that Manwin did operate from there. Yes could be a major issue. I think other major TV/video/internet companies operate from there too.

Therumbler    [30621.   Posted 26-Feb-2015 Thu 17:29]
  Does the new law in Luxembourg mean Manwin will have to leave?

Therumbler    [30620.   Posted 22-Feb-2015 Sun 16:36]
  I see Jack Straw`s political career is on the ropes. He wasn`t a man sympathetic to our general attitude to media, was he?

phantom    [30619.   Posted 13-Feb-2015 Fri 06:10]
  re: More people to be persecuted for extreme pornography...

"More nasty laws generated by crap politicians who seem to get a kick out of jailing innocent people"

Well put, Dave.
It has long appeared to me that the crass desire to interfere with other people`s sexual interests is in fact a sexual fetish of its own.

Personally, I regard it as a sort of molestation. Just as a woman might not appreciate having her behind grabbed at a bus station, so do I think most people abhor the government sticking its hand down their knickers in these incessant sexual prohibitions.

But chances are it is a sort of control fetish, - Fifty Shades of Westminster Grey, so to speak, - whereby certain people in power are actually sexually driven to these acts of sexual control.
Who knows, to those of a submissive bent, this `being controlled` may in fact prove gratifying.

But what is clear to me is that the drive to control our collective sexuality appears so compulsive that it may indeed be a syndrome.
You may be familiar with Stockholm Syndrome, the condition attributed to some victims of kidnapping, whereby they begin to bond with their captors.
Who knows, there may be such a thing as `Westminster Syndrome` whereby the mere act of being in power creates the irrational desire to delve into other people`s sexual habits and desires in order to interfere.

What is evident is that the symptoms displayed so vividly by politicians make it quite clear that the condition is highly abnormal...

phantom    [30618.   Posted 11-Feb-2015 Wed 12:28]

I agree with your summation of the Green Party. I too would rather see them as authoritarian than libertarian. As said, i can only imagine that their stance on animal rights is being counted as a huge plus on `civil liberties`. I cannot otherwise see how they can be so far in the liberal sphere on that graph.

As for UKIP however, I would point you to the very paragraph you`ve quoted.
It is an explanation why they are positioned so far to the right on the graph, not why they are positioned so far in the authoritarian domain.
The term `neoliberal` denotes macro-economic views, not anything to do with the libertarian/authoritarian spectrum.
So, no, the author is not, as you allege, denoting them as authoritarian for any NHS policy.
Just as with the Greens their position on the libertarian/authoritarian spectrum is unexplained.
I would very much like to know what the author`s thinking was.
But it is not apparent from that article alone.

freeworld    [30617.   Posted 11-Feb-2015 Wed 09:56]
  phantom [30615. Posted 10-Feb-2015 Tue 15:34]

"... the first election in which UKIP is.. seen in its true a deeply conservative one that largely endorses the neoliberal agenda. Nigel Farage’s recent shift from unequivocal support for health care free at the point of use underlines this reality."

- Political compass

Clearly this writer thinks advocating an insurance based health service system - as operated in many western countries, makes you more of an "authoritarian"! I certainly don`t accept that. Or that economic "neoliberalism" has much bearing on making a society more "authoritarian" at all. In fact, I believe the opposite - the more "neoliberal", the less statist and thus authoritarian a society will usually be. China under Mao and the USSR under Stalin and co were scarcely "neoliberal" economically, but extremely authoritarian - in fact, totalitarian (same goes for Nazi Germany which had a highly state interventionist command economy - though business/industry was still largely privately owned, the economy was massively state directed and that state was very socially interventionist too - nothing "neoliberal" about it - just like the communist ones, it was authoritarian/totalitarian).

This kind of highly statist approach to society and the economy is very much along the same lines as the one the Green party offers; here it`s being promoted as a "cuddly" version of what is actually the same old "we know what`s best for you" (and we are going to give it to you!) authoritarianism - statist intervention/direction from macro to micro levels - a programme for the greenly sanctimonious statist.

As CS Lewis put it so very well decades ago -

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron`s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”

― C.S. Lewis

Non authoritarian, indeed!

DoodleBug    [30616.   Posted 10-Feb-2015 Tue 23:51]
  Woke up this morning to find an email from Ebay saying that they have removed a listing of mine for a DVD because it violates their policy on violent content.

The title in question ??? Nekromantik. A film which is now perfectly legal to own in the UK !

What makes this even more laughable is that it was a listing that was closed because someone bought it yesterday !

Doing a search on Ebay for Nekromantik still shows results from other sellers. If i remember rightly didn`t a similar thing happen a few years ago when someone listed the "Box of the Banned" boxset from Anchor Bay ?

phantom    [30615.   Posted 10-Feb-2015 Tue 15:34]
  Melon Farmers (Dave) [30613]
freeworld [30614]
On the whole I`d say it`s a very laudable attempt at a graphic
depiction of political positions.

Yes, I too am a little perplexed as to how the Greens got to be so far into libertarian territory.
No policies spring to mind which would put them there. Yes, they support legalisation of prostitution, but that policy alone cannot make up for that huge gap.
I suspect that the creator of the graph takes the Green`s commitment to animal rights and welfare into consideration, thus equating civil rights with animal rights. Not very helpful.

But all in all, one thing becomes clear.
There simply is no meaningful representation of liberal views in UK politics today.
It demonstrates that the democratic choice presented to the people today is a false one.
One is permitted to choose between right and left, but the most liberal minded nation on earth is not given any liberal choices, lest they choose them....

As for your comment on health, Freeworld, I think the comment on UKIP being neo-liberal is aimed at their economic policy (i.e. liberal=`laisser faire` economic policy), which I guess is code for `right-wing`. Which is where the health service comes into it.
so I don`t think one is saying their views on health service make them authoritarian.

As such I am surprised at how authoritarian UKIP are portrayed in that graph. Sure, they`d be tough on immigration, which would surely push them up that scale, but I can`t really point to any great number of harsh, authoritarian policies. Personally, I would suspect they would be authoritarians, but I cannot actually point to anything solid.

Than again, I guess much of that graph must be done by feel.
But it`s a very creditable attempt. I applaud whoever did it.

freeworld    [30614.   Posted 10-Feb-2015 Tue 09:48]
  Melon Farmers (Dave) [30613. Posted 10-Feb-2015 Tue 04:13]
If you look at the Green programme they`re horribly authoritarian/bossy on a whole range of issues.They are in many ways an embodiment of student union authoritarian PC, even more than Labour. Though at least they want to decriminalize the sex industry and treat animals decently. The site is very misleading when it comes to who is authoritarian and who isn`t. I don`t see how "authoritarian" comes into how you have a health service financed. Using that kind of odd yardstick the old USSR would have been less authoritarian than the USA.


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