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Therumbler    [30741.   Posted 1-Aug-2015 Sat 10:56]
  http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/the-amnesty-sex-work-argument-broken-down-622

Frankie Mullen, the only journalist who seems to bother questioning anti-sex and anti-porn stories, breaks down the faults in recent attack on Amnesty.

phantom    [30740.   Posted 30-Jul-2015 Thu 20:28]
  Yes, Cameron seems determined.
And the left (represented by the Guardian here) is right behind it.

So it just looks like a juggernaut that`s unstoppable now.
Reason simply doesn`t apply here. This whole censorship malarky follows its own, twisted logic.
Children are assumed to be in danger from an assumed harm. So censorship will provide the solution, one assumes. :)

Are we truly `protecting children`? Or are we far more playing to the sensitivities of easily offended women (i.e. voters!) with a chip on their shoulder about porn?

Of course, the moment you have an industry which complies with the government`s ludicrous regulations, you will have a lobby group interested in protecting its position and investment.
So the UK porn industry (the BBFC approved and ATVOD registered material providers) will invariably need protecting from the utterly unregulated, mainly American providers with their far superior material.
Having ruled the material illegal over here, one will then need to create the great fire wall, to protect those who comply from competition that would otherwise crush them.

In that respect it will be the same story as with the sex shops who pay licences. They must be guaranteed a quasi monopoly. Else why pay for a licence?

Thus, we have entered a new censorial era. Who has forgotten the days of David Sullivan`s `hardcore` material being sold in the UK in the 1990s?
This is where we`re headed. But now on the net. This time with full nudity. How exciting. :)

Naturally it`s an utterly futile effort.
Censorship never works. We know what happened to the desperate censorship efforts of the 1990s.
They collapsed. They always collapse.

For what which once was censored remains censored?
The censorial and legalistic types talk of censorship adapting to changing standards. But the truth is, that the standards only ever change in one direction. The past centuries of censorship have only ever seen standards go one way. One would think at some point someone would learn.

Not too long ago, I swallowed hard, when Depeche Mode`s `Personal Jesus` was used in a male perfume advert. When that record came out it was deemed a product of Sodom and Gomorrah. Now it`s the background to daytime television advertisements – in the run up to Christmas, no less.

Censorship is a science of ignorance, where those who deliberately hold themselves ignorant, by refusing to learn from history, try to keep their compatriots equally ignorant.

I remember reading Duerrenmatt`s `Phycicians` yonks ago. In it the great thinker examines how a thought that has been thought cannot be `unthought`.
What has been thought simply is. Like a weed it will find a way. Simply because it will.
You cannot censor the thought which has been thought, the discovery which has been made. It exists. You can pretend that it doesn`t. But it will continue to exist.
Duerrenmatt may apply this to nuclear theory and atom bombs, but it applies just as much to porn or horror films.

Just as you cannot censor atomic knowledge (look to Iran on that very matter!), so you cannot stop Debbie from doing Dallas, over and over.

It is simply an incontrovertible truth. Censorship fails.
But it creates untold misery while it continues its futile struggle.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30739.   Posted 30-Jul-2015 Thu 03:42]
  So the government are kicking off another round of publicity for their anti-porn efforts

http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2015/jul/30/cameron-promises-action-to-restrict-under18s-accessing-pornography

Sergio re the legal argument.

I think it also quite key that none of the other countries have decided that porn is seriously harmful. It would be interesting if the UK had to argue its case in Euro court, any winning arguments would have serious ramifications for the rest of Europe.

sergio    [30738.   Posted 30-Jul-2015 Thu 00:48]
  Ms Pandora letter: she seems to be saying that because she sadistically and sexually beats men and women and that she is a feminist and a woman then she is not sleazy. Ok.

The last part of the letter seems to be the legal advice she is getting from those backlashers.

`Anyway, my substantive representation is as follows. Your Rule 11 and 14 claims rely on an implementation of the AVMS that goes way beyond the provisions of the underlying Directive 2010/13/EU. Whilst I accept that in certain quarters it is currently in vogue to blame all the ills of society on those dastardly continentals, when approving the Treaty to join the EU in 1972 Parliament anticipated this pernicious influence in the European Communities Act 1972, and under Section 2(2) granted a Secretary of State the power only to pass secondary legislation for the purpose of implementing any EU obligation, but to go no further - an interpretation buttressed by case law, in particular Marleasing SA v La Comercial Internacional de Alimentacion SA 1992 1 CMLR 305.

Hence I submit the Audiovisual Media Services Regulations 2014, which introduced sections 368E(2) and (3) into the Communications Act 2003, were made ultra vires the Secretary of State`s power to pass secondary legislation.`

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_vires
Hey! Secretary of state, you ain`t got no authority (to pass this law).

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30737.   Posted 28-Jul-2015 Tue 14:18]
  DarkAngel

I rather think these figures don`t really suggest there is much porn viewing going on there. There are typically 1000 members and maybe 2 staff each, so a fair amount of websites being accessed. Then there are also loads of sites like melon farmers that are blocked with the message `porn` so surely there are thousands of useful non-porn sites similarly blocked.

But it is interesting to note that people are trying to generate new laws about porn without actually being able to see what they are legislating against.

Also good to note that the authorities feel the need to block MPs from viewing porn in the first place. They`ll be initiating drugs tests next.

And of course it is excellent that this attempt to prevent MPs from viewing porn ends up suggesting that they watch loads of the stuff.

DarkAngel5    [30736.   Posted 28-Jul-2015 Tue 08:10]
  Have you guys read this? Seems our learned peers see nothing wrong in viewing porn whilst simultaneously seeking to prevent us from doing to same....

http://www.rt.com/uk/310857-parliament-porn-sites-access/

Hypocrisy in the extreme!!!!

braintree    [30735.   Posted 27-Jul-2015 Mon 13:53]
  I think the version I saw was uncut. The "eye" scene was there and that`s pretty much the goriest moment of the film. July 1983 is much later than when I first saw it.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30734.   Posted 27-Jul-2015 Mon 12:46]
  Braintree.

Interesting about the versions of Zombie Holocaust.

There may be an explanation here:

http://www.pre-cert.co.uk/display.php?vId=UK10026

VTC issued a less cut version before replacing it with a more heavily cut version

braintree    [30732.   Posted 25-Jul-2015 Sat 14:59]
  Re Zombie Holocaust. I remember renting this movie in 1982 from a local video shop and it was the complete version. So when I went to watch it again a year or two later and got the VTC version I was gutted to see it was also gutted of the juiciest scenes. I never did find out the source of the uncut version. I did wonder if it was the Dutch tape but that would have had subtitles on it (although I`m not sure it didn`t) but I can`t see why my local video shop would have bothered to buy in a Dutch tape when there was more than enough blood and gore coming out at that point. Very surprised when the UK dvd was uncut in 2000. The new Bluray is an upgrade and worth buying for the feature length documentary on cannibal movies which is only available on US Bluray on the region locked disc of Cannibal Ferox

Therumbler    [30731.   Posted 23-Jul-2015 Thu 14:44]
  Interesting that ATVOD targeted Vice. One of their writers, Frankie Mullen https://twitter.com/frankiemullin, appears to be in Melonfarmers` and has questioned the validity of some of the research being used to push internet filters.

https://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/uk-porn-addiction-teenagers-304

This isn`t the first time someone questioning ATVOD`s vision has been targeted by them:

It seems pretty likely that my visibility as a campaigner has made me a target. In other words, ATVOD are punishing me for speaking out against them. My priorities as a loud-mouthed activist have, it seems, ended up conflicting with my priorities as a creative artist. If I`d kept my head down and stayed quiet, and not attended any protests, or argued against the regulations on the news, or done interviews with the press - if I`d not written a lot of angry blogposts or fundraised £3826 to help Backlash fight the laws - maybe I`d have been left alone a bit longer.

http://dreamsofspanking.com/blog/2015/5/under-investigation-by-atvod

cor    [30729.   Posted 20-Jul-2015 Mon 03:39]
  phantom[30728]

We can extrapolate how the big music companies would like the future to go by your example and things like this;

https://www.eff.org/en-gb/deeplinks/2005/11/are-you-infected-sony-bmgs-rootkit

And as for Operating systems, Microsoft, Apple and Google seem happily compliant trashing our rights for a pat on the back from political leaders as well.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-collaboration-user-data
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2013/12/30/the-nsa-reportedly-has-total-access-to-your-iphone/
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/5/6/nsa-chief-google.html

Whether skeptical about some of this or not, the utopian future idealized by some clearly includes total annihilation of personal privacy.

And it makes sense that in preparing for such a future corporations (and governments) would like to maintain their legal advantages over us. Though i think this is largely a formality, as it will be fairly easy to strip rights from a people who are under such total observation and so under total control.

phantom    [30728.   Posted 19-Jul-2015 Sun 16:54]
  We seem to be heading toward an age where even our fridge will be connected to the net.
In ten, twenty years time we may well have devices which are all linked.
It may thus turn out to be your home entertainment system, your mobile phone, your laptop or your cloud storage which rats you out regarding what copies you might have made.
We cannot know where things are headed - but they will try and keep their options open - as things may well head their way.
Especially with more and more programmes being operable from the cloud rather than via your harddisk copy, the potential for such future reporting is very great.
I maintain that the music industry know what they`re doing. They are playing the very same game our dear government played with `illegal` porn.
What is clear is that, however pointless or lost the situation may appear, they will never cease fighting their corner, as they always hold out hope that things may swing their way - eventually.

braintree    [30727.   Posted 19-Jul-2015 Sun 13:31]
  I didn`t say anything about downloading. I said making your own copies of cd`s or copying your content to a hard drive, which is something the best technology they ever get won`t even know about. Downloading isn`t something they`ve changed. Illegal downloading remains illegal and they can carry on blocking sites willy nilly and perhaps might even make a difference. This High Court ruling is about making personal copies - not downloading which is why it`s pointless - because they are trying to prevent something they can never keep track of. It`s as pointless as when they tried to bring in the law preventing people from keeping home VCR recordings for longer than 28 days

phantom    [30726.   Posted 18-Jul-2015 Sat 16:58]
  I don`t think it`s because the industry believes it will be able to change something immediately, Braintree.

I believe they simply wish to keep their options open. Future technological developments may go their way. But only if at that point they still have the law backing them, can they use it to their advantage.
I believe that`s the way they see it.

In that regard they are taking their lead from government. For years UK government maintained an insane principle that all content on the entire net is published in the UK and therefore liable to legal sanctions.

But now look at them. Slowly the technological net is closing. They simply maintained a nonsense throughout a time in which things were impossible. Their goal was always porn. And now? Now the legal steps have been put in place with ATVOD etc.
Sooner or later, one will be able to ban foreign porn (or such foreign porn one wishes to victimise) for breaking UK law, - because it`s published here...

The forces of sexual bigotry held on for ten years or so, throughout which their cause looked hopeless. The internet meant we were winning. But we, the libertarians, are a disorganised jumble of idealists.
They won. Because they played the long game. They maintained useless legal options, waiting for the moment when technology turned in their favour.
Now it`s happening. And they`ll have their great British firewall pretty soon. To keep out the foreign muck which is `breaking` UK law.

Who could blame the music industry for playing the same game?
So what if everyone ignores their pointless, unenforcible laws. They`ll wait. Until such a day when enforcement is possible. Then they reclaim their lost territory and start selling cds at 15 quid again.
But that day may only come if they succeed in maintaining the legal status quo.

Remember that Snowden`s revelations shocked the world. Not merely by telling us whom governments were spying on, but by showing what IT capacity`s they have by now.
These tremendous IT surveillance capacities will only increase. And sooner or later they will be turned on music downloaders.

Then tell me again how pointless the music industry`s actions are....

braintree    [30725.   Posted 18-Jul-2015 Sat 14:04]
  It`s incredible that the music business wastes so much money going to the High Court to overturn the legalisation of making personal copies in the delusion that it matters to anyone. We all made personal copies before the ruling and we will continue to do so after it. Does this mean that copying your cds to a hard drive will be illegal? We may never care.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30724.   Posted 17-Jul-2015 Fri 05:42]
  ATVOD has released its latest Annual Report

Press release at

http://www.atvod.co.uk/news-consultations/news-consultationsnews/atvod-acts-to-protect-children-from-hardcore-porn-on-uk-vod-services

Annual Report at

http://www.atvod.co.uk/uploads/files/Annual_Report_2015_FINAL.pdf

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30723.   Posted 14-Jul-2015 Tue 01:47]
  The BBFC has released its Annual Report covering 2014

The press release is at

http://www.bbfc.co.uk/about-bbfc/media-centre/british-board-film-classification-grow-online-child-protection-while

The report is at

http://www.bbfc.co.uk/sites/default/files/attachments/BBFC%20Annual%20Report%202014.compressed_0.pdf

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30722.   Posted 14-Jul-2015 Tue 01:46]
  Thanks Doodlebug, I will get the info updated.

DoodleBug    [30721.   Posted 13-Jul-2015 Mon 13:49]
  RE : The Cell (U.S. BLU-RAY)

The new U.S. release of The Cell has been confirmed to contain the Unrated version (109 mins) of the movie.

See post below from blu-ray.com forum member "cakefactory" with screenshots :

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=259821&page=9

The reviewer on the blu-ray.com site also states the running time difference in his review.

Despite the back cover stating an R-rating, cover screenshots on Amazon.com show a running time of 109 mins.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30720.   Posted 9-Jul-2015 Thu 05:57]
  Well the ISP have now `upgraded the server`, and the forum still seems to be working. This is a bit strange as they told me the server would then no longer support the database, Access, that is being used.

phantom    [30719.   Posted 1-Jul-2015 Wed 06:14]
  Funny you should mention government proposals to have teachers spying on pupils.

You see, I have a little first hand experience of that.
I may be born in Britain but I grew up in Switzerland.
There is a little known story from Switzerland which is very relevant to the Snowden revelations and the entire modern day security apparatus.

A little over 25 years ago a scandal blew up in Switzerland, when it emerged that the government had been spying on its people.
It became known as the `dossier affair`, due to the government apparently keeping dossiers on vast numbers of people.
The population was outraged.

Unlike the UK and US governments the Swiss federal government did not have the gall to claim it needed to do this and instead came clean.
It promised to destroy the dossiers.
Everyone was given the right to claim a copy of their dossier in order to see what was in it.

Like me, most did not. Because who would expect to have been of interest to the government anyway, right?

Well, it so happened I much later met an old school friend on a tram. We talked. Turns out, he had asked for his copy.
The first entry had been made when we were in primary school together, at about the age of ten. He was `a loner, kept to himself, tended to get into trouble`, etc.

One thing is clear, if my pal had been reported by the teacher for that, then so will I have been. Not least as I had been his best friend back then at school.
But sadly it was past the deadline. So no chance anymore of getting myself a copy of my dossier. Too bad. It would no doubt have made interesting reading.

So, although I do not know it for certain, I`m pretty sure I will have been catalogued by the nation`s authorities - from age ten onwards. Reported on by my primary teachers and so forth. I would never have suspected it, until I just happened to bump into my long lost friend Alain years later.

The lesson is clear. You may not suspect anything at all. You may think yourself of no interest to the authorities at all. Yet still they`ll make their notes.
Just in case a ten year old loner who keeps to himself and gets into trouble might turn into a terrorist someday.
Better safe than sorry....

You see, the most worrying aspect about the scandal was that nobody ever explained for whom or what the dossiers were actually ever intended. You only collect such data if one day you intend to look at it for some purpose.

The `dossier affair` got more and more sinister. After the first scandal had blown, there followed another one soon after.
Switzerland has military conscription.
Believe it or not, they had a list of officer`s names who - due to their dossiers - were deemed untrustworthy. On outbreak of war, these were to be imprisoned.

And remember, this was Switzerland. Peaceable, quiet, deeply democratic Switzerland. Cheese, watches and mountains.

Yet, if left unchecked, they would spy on ten year olds and file the reports forever and, better yet, lock up their own officers.

So when I hear of the UK government, which is dossier mad, asking teachers to do some intelligence gathering for them, it`s like hearing an old story repeated.

After all, I believe myself to have been logged, filed and catalogued.
Because I was as contrary back then as I still am today. :)

If a teacher files a report on a pupil, then it will need to go somewhere. It will be kept in a file - a dossier - connected to this individual for life.

Over time the curiosity of the state will only expand.
Until they`re logging all kids.
Just like in Switzerland.
Just to be safe....

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30718.   Posted 1-Jul-2015 Wed 05:25]
  phantom, a fascinating post.

Maybe there is another level of societal political correctness at play though.

There are absolute rules that are widely supported. And then there are the rules that everybody knows are bollox, and only given lip service for published comments.

I think many of the issues you note are protected by a veneer of PC but it doesn`t go very deep. There can`t be many who buy the claim that `radicaliation` is some sort of instant 100% transformation/revelation initiated by an internet posting. It seems clear that such occurances are more likely reflections of the milieu in which these people live their day to day lives.

Of course the authorities could never say that... But they could pressgang teachers into spying on signs of exactly that unmentionable community background.

phantom    [30717.   Posted 29-Jun-2015 Mon 14:10]
  I`m sorry but Boris is just plain wrong.
Who knows, perhaps deliberately so.
One of the characteristics of the definitions surrounding Islamist terrorism is that the political leadership of this country are always divorcing it from Islam.
No doubt, they don`t want to lose the votes of the Muslim citizenry who might choose to feel offended.
But the truth is that we simply haven`t got Jewish or Protestant men with Kalashnikovs combing holiday beaches for people to shoot.

--

a) How often have we heard this phrase?
`Islamist terrorism has nothing to do with Islam.`
Over and again we are told by self appointed Muslim community leaders, government and opposition politicians that Islamist ideology is a perversion of a great faith and that the terrorists represent merely a tiny minority of Muslims.

--

However, over the past 35 years we have seen a fundamentalisation across the Muslim world. If we are completely honest, does a fundamentalisation mean that, as societies, they move closer or further away from the absolutist ideology of the terrorists?
I believe the answer to that is obvious. To deny that Muslim societies across the world have hardened their stance over the past three to four decades flies in the face of self-evident history.
Ayatollah Khomeini`s rise to power in Iran, the growth of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, the diminution of secular leadership in the struggle for an independent Palestine, the decline of Bathist nationalism, the rise of Hisbollah and Hamas. Even Turkey – the country of Ataturk - now has a distinctly Islamic government. All this is not mere coincidence.

It cannot be denied that Lebanon was once hailed `the Switzerland of the Middle East`, with women in western dress walking the promenades of Beirut. Many pictures of men in Afghanistan from the 1970s will show them clean shaven, wearing suits.
One of the things which offended Khomeini so terribly was that there were women in miniskirts on the streets of Teheran.

But where has all this gone? It was swept aside in a gradual, but dramatic fundamentalisation. Caught up in a vicious cycle, Islamic countries almost vied with each other regarding who could prove more devoutly religious.
Women`s western dress disappeared more and more. Life became much more strictly prescribed.
Beards made a big come back. So did the western suit begin to disappear. Everywhere, in every facet of civil life religion entered more and more. Even the tales of `A thousand and one nights` were widely banned for being `unislamic`. (This despite these tales being part of the Middle East`s very own cultural heritage.)
Governments, keen solely on maintaining the immediate, short term civic peace, appeased the religious faction, ceding ever more territory to the religious leadership.

Whereas the response of India and China has been to embrace globalisation, an Islamic world, feeling increasingly threatened by outside economic and cultural pressures, turned inwards and sought to purify itself, creating a bulwark to foreign influence by strict adherence to core cultural and religious traditions.
Societies which involve themselves in too much concern over matters of purity can turn very nasty. 1930s Germany is a ready warning.

Now, if we consider that a society contains a wide spectrum, made up of both liberal and zealous elements, then where does the religiously radical wing go, if the societal mainstream itself becomes increasingly religiously hardline?
Surely, the shelf is of limited width. The more a society tends toward religious zealotry, the more likely the most zealous in said society will fall off the far end of the shelf.

I believe this is exactly how the conditions have come about which now spawn these terrorist organisations.

Religious terrorism is little more than the expression of radicalism by a society`s religious radicals who are bereft of any other means of expressing their radicalism, as much of their fundamentalist ideology has over recent decades been absorbed into mainstream Muslim society.

A radical, a zealot will not simply let himself be re-absorbed into a societal mainstream which adopts his ideas. Far more he will shift his ground, re-establishing equidistance – thus preserving his radical identity.
The more toward religious fundamentalism society moves, so too does the pre-existing religious fundamentalist.

It thus follows, how can you be a zealot in a country of zealots?
You venture where even the ordinarily zealous will not go.
Religious terrorism is an extension of this zealotry. Terrorism is the last bastion of radicalism for those whose radical identity has been eroded away by the mainstream having become more radical.

--

b) Meanwhile, where is the means by which people are turned into terrorists to be found?
The internet - apparently. Al Qaeda and Islamic State supposedly recruit people online via social media and youtube videos. In fact, they `groom` them into becoming terrorists.
`Vulnerable individuals` are corrupted into sharing the twisted beliefs.

--

The lingo used to define the supposed route to radicalisation through the internet sounds incredibly familiar. According to current establishment doctrine, pornography can `corrupt` people. What people? `Vulnerable individuals` of course.
The vocabulary regarding radicalisation is almost entirely lifted from anti-pornography propaganda.
The belief that seeing a sexual act in a pornographic video can corrupt the viewer is being transposed wholesale into the world of terrorism.

Meanwhile nobody questions this credo.
Just as the myths about pornography go almost entirely unchallenged, so too has it been accepted that youngsters simply fall victim to seeing Islamists beheading people and thus becoming Islamists themselves.

Gaps in this anti-porn derived perspective are filled with views regarding paedophilia. Where innocent children are `groomed` by sexual predators, now innocent, vulnerable, young men are `groomed` by fanatical recruiters.
This presupposes that the young men are innocent and vulnerable – like children. One accepts by default the usual line forwarded by relatives that this or that young man, prior to his becoming a terrorist, was not an extremist at all (suggesting in fact that their family are not extremist and therefore not worthy of investigation) and had instead been corrupted and mislead by `someone` online.
It most likely belies that the individual concerned - and his wider family - held what most would consider hardline views regarding sharia law, burkhas, women`s rights and infidels, etc.

--

The truth, I fear, is not very comfortable.

Fundamentalisation has moved most societies in Islamic countries closer to the stance of the Islamists. Religious and cultural tolerance is now in short supply in many of these countries. What marks out the terrorists, if not an abject lack of tolerance?
It therefore takes much less convincing to move an individual situated on the hardline fundamentalist fringe of a fundamentalist society to take that last remaining step into radical terrorism.

I know a number of secular Muslims. But in my time I have also met a number of Muslims who, though outwardly secular, hold quite radical views; preferring the UK to be under sharia law, for example.

The UK`s problem is that living here today we have a large diaspora of Muslims who in many cases maintain very close ties to Pakistan and other Islamic countries. They are thus prone to influence by fundamentalised Islam.
It is this fundamentalisation which poses the great threat. Not youtube videos.

--

So to my mind, this is not as complicated as many politicians and community leaders would have us believe. Sure, Islam per se is not to blame. Mohammed certainly did not have this in mind when he dictated his revelations some 1400 years ago.
But it cannot be a coincidence that religious terrorism occurs on this scale, across the Muslim world, after a continued religious fundamentalisation across the very same territory over several decades.
The connection between the two seems fairly obvious.

When the religious fervour finally will die down across the Muslim world, is anyone`s guess.
But it is only once the Muslim mainstream normalises, once every Iraqi soldier stops feeling compelled to shout `Allahu aqbar` every time he fires an artillery piece, once globalisation is no longer resisted as though it were a foreign invasion, that we can hope to see religious terrorism end.

For one thing is crystal clear to me. It is Islamic society which has spawned this menace – albeit unwittingly – with its widespread fundamentalisation.

Trying to make out it instead was the internet what done it, may well help some politicians secure some votes, but it will never take us any nearer the truth.

Boris Johnson is a classicist, a man who understands his history. He ought to now better than to spout such nonsense.

My apologies for the long post.
Let`s say it`s the conclusion of a great deal of thinking I`ve been doing on this matter for some time.

braintree    [30716.   Posted 29-Jun-2015 Mon 13:39]
  I think the BFI release was 2009 but I can see why this might have popped up as a story because the previous issue was a dvd/bluray combo. This is the first release as dvd only

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30715.   Posted 29-Jun-2015 Mon 03:02]
  Sergio

Mental gymnastics with terminology seems to the preoccupation of our time. One has to wonder how they will deal with the more substantive problems.

Boris Johnson provides a good example in this morning`s news.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11704735/Islamic-State-This-death-cult-is-not-a-state-and-its-certainly-not-Islamic.html

Braintree

Re Here We go Round the Mulberry Bush. I was just trying to confirm that the current release was the uncut version. I have now added a not to say that it has been uncut since the BFI release in 2005.

sergio    [30714.   Posted 29-Jun-2015 Mon 00:55]
  We must be more intolerant of the intolerant.
-------------Phew! is this some sort of logical circle?-----------

If we are more intolerant then who will tolerate us?
All people are intolerant, but some people are more intolerant than others?

braintree    [30713.   Posted 27-Jun-2015 Sat 13:07]
  Confused about the "shopping" story for Here We go Round the Mulberry Bush. This has been available on disc for 5 years from the BFI

sergio    [30712.   Posted 26-Jun-2015 Fri 01:46]
  http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/33268777/dapper-laughs-my-suicide-tweet-wasnt-a-joke


World`s funniest joke
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ienp4J3pW7U

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30711.   Posted 25-Jun-2015 Thu 15:53]
  Any time from now on when GoDaddy move this site to an Apache server.

braintree    [30710.   Posted 25-Jun-2015 Thu 14:35]
  How long until D-Day?

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30709.   Posted 24-Jun-2015 Wed 21:36]
  The ISP is withdrawing support for Microsoft Server based software on which this forum is based. Unfortunately this spells the end of this forum.

I will have a look around for alternatives

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30708.   Posted 22-Jun-2015 Mon 15:54]
  Good one phantom, it all seems so typical of 21st Century life. As always rules intended to promote harmony, tolerance and politeness get used to generate disharmony, intolerance and strife.

phantom    [30707.   Posted 22-Jun-2015 Mon 13:55]
  
It is remarkable how supposed liberalism and enlightenment is turning into rank intolerance in this country.

On Saturday, 21 June, we had the `Cumbria Pride` event in Carlisle.
It was one of those officially sanctioned gay festivals.
I`ll never quite understand the point of them, but fair dos. Why not?

However, three preachers arrived in town to protest.
Again, not something I comprehend how anyone can motivate themselves to do this. But again, why not? Rumour has it that these guys are from America and are touring UK gay pride events, telling folks what God thinks.

So far, so good, right? Wrong.

The preachers set themselves up about 100 yards away from the concert area in the city centre.
There really was no reason for any immediate confrontation.
But that was to reckon without the militancy and downright aggression by the `LGBT` crowd.

When I arrived in the town centre, pushing someone in a wheelchair, the mob was in full swing.
The religious yanks were surrounded by a large crowd of militant LGBT demonstrators who shouted down the one who was trying to speak. They chanted and blew whistles at any attempt of his to preach.
Their main chant was `Gay not God! Gay not God!`
The entire purpose was to silence the preacher, or make anything he said unintelligible.
It was very loud, very aggressive.
Orchestrated bullying by a large mob.

Now I am a lifelong atheist. I have thus no religious bias in favour of these street preachers.
Truth be told, I argued for gay rights long before it became a fashionable cause.
But let us reverse the situation. Let us imagine the lone speaker to have been demanding gay rights, then being was surrounded and shouted down by a large group of skin heads.
There would be immediate complaints, denouncing it a hate crime.

But instead the members of this large mob – and it was a mob – no doubt believe they struck a blow for liberty and tolerance. Because they believe that anything they do serves liberty and tolerance.
Being gay, they`re just right, because they are.
So convinced are they of their innate victimhood, they do not believe themselves capable of being the bullies. Martyrs all.

However, all they accomplished here was to perform a blatant act of oppression.
Ironically, on the day they were celebrating their freedom of expression they chose to deny someone else that very same right – in public, with loud, aggressive and boorish behaviour.

As it happened I was pushing someone in a wheelchair through town. Else I would have gone over and stood up for the preachers. I hate bullies and be they gay bullies.

It gets better, any reference I`ve found in the local press and online has laid the blame entirely with the preachers for `disrupting` the gay pride event.
Having seen it first hand, I know they were not disrupting anything. They were merely present.
The main event went on completely undisturbed by the preachers.

But apparently, being present in town, protesting, voicing an opinion not shared by the established orders nowadays means `disrupting` things.

I was there. I saw it with my own eyes.
The only fascist mob present were the LGBT lot.
The only disrupting that was being done was their aggressively shouting down any attempt to speak by someone who dared to disagree with them.

But so indoctrinated with current dogma has everyone become that even the press report the story as a complete inversion of the truth. The preachers were the disruptive element, we`re told.
The gays, apparently, are all much too peace-loving and happy-go-lucky to cause trouble.
Think again.

phantom    [30706.   Posted 21-Jun-2015 Sun 18:58]
  You`ll love this one.

http://wonkette.com/588839/teacher-fired-for-saying-sandy-hook-during-safety-drill-inspired-by-sandy-hook

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30704.   Posted 31-May-2015 Sun 13:55]
  Not a particularly enlightening contribution from the Daily Mail, but the admission in the headline is surely a first for the rag.

LIZ JONES: Shocking, I know... but could porn be making the world safer?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3104216/LIZ-JONES-Shocking-know-porn-making-world-safer.html

sergio    [30703.   Posted 25-May-2015 Mon 02:06]
  http://www.wouj.com/not-the-uk-column-news-atvod-exposed/

Ruth Evans, has she got a lot of fingers in a lot of pies?

sergio    [30702.   Posted 23-May-2015 Sat 02:20]
  It is really a bit strange, they all seemed be okay with it being recorded but some chairwoman seems to have given `legal advice` that it can`t be posted. After the meeting? Did she advise after the meeting? After the audio was posted?

What actually is the point of it being recorded then?
I don`t know who the chairwoman of that ATVOD/APN meeting was.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30701.   Posted 21-May-2015 Thu 15:06]
  Sergio, it is not entirely surprising, as the previous meeting featured a couple of webmasters openly describing how they were using the age verification procedures to pedal rubbish, that people simply would not buy if they could see a preview.

sergio    [30700.   Posted 21-May-2015 Thu 06:33]
  But surely there must be some get around the `The Chatham House Rule`?
There must be some gaping loop hole. There must be! I know!?? Robots!!!!!
We give the audio to a robot and get them to say/speak it. And it self combusts ...

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30699.   Posted 21-May-2015 Thu 02:13]
  Thanks Sergio.

Isn`t it a disgrace that those being censored by age verification aren`t allowed to hear the latest about what is being implemented.

sergio    [30698.   Posted 20-May-2015 Wed 12:30]
  That ATVOD meeting podcast seems to have had to be taken down due to `legal advice`.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30697.   Posted 19-May-2015 Tue 11:38]
  The latest article from the BBFC archive speaks of the cuts required to the early releases of the original Mad Max.


http://www.bbfc.co.uk/case-studies/mad-max-1979

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30696.   Posted 17-May-2015 Sun 02:12]
  Re category cuts.

There are certainly issues with category cuts but I think the distributors have got it more or less sewn up on the issue of enough viewers taking issue at the cuts themselves.

Distributors of horror films, most at risk of customer opposition tend to be aware of this and do as good as job as possible of getting their releases uncut.

Category cuts are generally requested in large market releases where it is unlikely that a significant proportion care about the cuts themselves.

However I do think there is one aspect that may be more amenable to opposition from a large proportion of viewers. And that is the perception that category cuts are diluting films and making them less worth viewing. Perhaps along the lines of Die Hard or Expendables being devalued by being toned down for a 12 rating.

Perhaps we could all contribute by emphasising the view that distributors pushing for lower ratings devalues the films, eg dismissing 12 rated films as kiddy horror or family actions films.

braintree    [30695.   Posted 16-May-2015 Sat 13:55]
  The easiest option is not to buy a cut dvd or Bluray. Often we can import an uncut version from the US or elsewhere. I don`t blame the distributors for category cutting to increase cinema revenue but there`s no excuses for home video and in most cases the cuts don`t happen on the Bluray. I had to purchase The Woman In Black from the US on Bluray as the uncut 15 UK version remains unreleased here. Money talks to so we won`t be able to sway distributors into accepting higher ratings for the cinema but we can also affect their pockets with Bluray too.

Glenn Quagmire    [30694.   Posted 16-May-2015 Sat 05:35]
  Is it worth lobbying distributors when a gets category cuts? We all moan when a film is cut for a certain certificate but do nothing about it. Why don`t we make our voices heard? Lobby the distributors. Email them. Write letters. Attack their behaviour on public forums. Give them bad press. Let`s just do something!

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30693.   Posted 15-May-2015 Fri 02:35]
  Human Centipede III (Final Sequence) has been passed 18 uncut by the BBFC for strong bloody violence, gore, sexual violence for cinema release.

http://www.bbfc.co.uk/releases/human-centipede-iii-final-sequence-2015

sergio    [30692.   Posted 14-May-2015 Thu 03:36]
  £100 a day! You`re so cheap.
-------------
Just found a horror book
http://www.lulu.com/shop/darrell-buxton/dead-or-alive-deluxe/hardcover/product-22127758.html#productDetails

via

http://gavcrimson.blogspot.co.uk/2015/03/staying-dead-or-alive.html

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30691.   Posted 13-May-2015 Wed 03:39]
  Sergio

These are the sort of question that lawyers earn 100 quid an hour debating.

sergio    [30690.   Posted 12-May-2015 Tue 05:55]
  A book can be a video, in this mode it is referred to as an animated book.
Books with a picture on each page is flicked over rapidly giving the video impression.

(provocation mode)

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30689.   Posted 12-May-2015 Tue 00:35]
  Sergio

Yes a gif can be a video, in this mode it is referred to as an animated gif.

On ATVOD determination, it seems to me that there is a fundamental lie about a video being TV like. The EU legislation started off all about linear TV with schedules and programmes. Then somewhere along the line it switched to being DVD like. Surely a downloaded video should be considered as DVD like, not TV like. ATVOD aren`t trying to censor Amazon DVDs, whats the difference to the films being downloadable, it just takes a day longer to get hold of exactly the same digital file.

sergio    [30688.   Posted 11-May-2015 Mon 06:36]
  Is a gif a video?

sergio    [30687.   Posted 11-May-2015 Mon 05:57]
  Mistress R`eal vs ATOVD

http://www.atvod.co.uk/complaints/determinations/2015-determinations
`The service provider has requested a review of the Rule 11 and Rule 14 Determinations.`

Pandora`s blog
http://dreamsofspanking.com/blog

Still don`t understand ATVOD crap about Itziar Urrutia, in their determination they seem to say that vids on clips4sale can be bought by anyone with a debit card. But that `the service did not meet the statutory definition of an on-demand programme service`. Still a mystery what thought process that was.

Is it `most porn has no narrative` therefore it is not `tv like`?

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30686.   Posted 9-May-2015 Sat 10:53]
  Freeworld

Interesting, but maybe inevitable background about Labour potential leadership.

I am wondering if they would be better advised to seek somebody who speaks more about workers and making money, and less about feminist/political correctness issues that make Labour seem very middle class and anti-men.

freeworld    [30685.   Posted 9-May-2015 Sat 04:55]
  Melon Farmers (Dave) {30684. Posted 7-May-2015 Thu 05:11}

I see Dan Jarvis is in the frame as a possible replacement for Miliband.

Some may recall Jarvis as one of the Labour MPs (the other was Sarah Champion) who wished to make the coalition extension to the DPA to certain rape/non consensual images much more inclusive.

"Subsection (2)(c) clearly states that an image will come within the scope of the offence if it portrays something in an “explicit and realistic way”. As Mr Austin explained, that could allow material that is badly acted, such as clearly fictional depictions of rape with actors acting a script, escaping the scope of this legislation. That could be the case even if the works include scenes of relentless, aggressive abuse, threats of physical violence with weapons and forced acts of sex. I understand that the Government plan to issue revised explanatory notes to the Bill to clarify the issue, but with those not yet published, I would very much appreciate any detail the Minister can offer on how that will be done."

"I beg to move amendment 14, in clause 16, page 16, line 30, leave out from ‘explicit’ to end of line 31 and insert

‘way, real or simulated depictions of either—’."

- Dan Jarvis in the CJC bill committee

The DOJ minister, Jeremy Wright , in committee, made it clear to Jarvis and Champion that broadening the bill was not justified and would represent too far reaching an inteference in private life, which the government would not consider.

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/pbc/2013-14/Criminal_Justice_and_Courts_Bill/06-0_2014-03-18a.4.0

A prospective new blasphemy law was on the cards from Ed Miliband -

Ed Miliband seemed to be preparing for another attempt to implement a new broad brush "blasphemy" criminalisation if he`d won the election, something which Labour had tried to do before in 2006, making "abusing/insulting" a religion a criminal offense.

http://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2015/04/free-speech-campaigners-concerned-by-ed-milibands-vow-to-ban-islamophobia--without-defining-what-he-means

http://www.libdemvoice.org/opinion-labours-unfinished-business-on-religious-hatred-45642.html

The potentially very inclusive wording of the bill was not supported at the time by the Tories. Once again, it was the house of lords which managed to mount an effective defense of civil rights against a commons determined to remove them. The Lords, with massive support in the upper chamber, amended the bill, removing abusive /insulting speech from criminalisation, limiting the law to one where threats deliberately designed to stir up hatred have been used. They also inserted a clause containing an excellent strong defense of the right to free speech in matters of religion -

Amendment 29J Protection of freedom of expression

Nothing in this Part shall be read or given effect in a way which prohibits or restricts discussion, criticism or expressions of antipathy, dislike, ridicule, insult or abuse of particular religions or the beliefs or practices of their adherents, or of any other belief system or the beliefs or practices of its adherents, or proselytising or urging adherents of a different religion or belief system to cease practising their religion or belief system.

When the bill returned to the commons again, Labour tried to have the amendment`s overturned and the original wording of the "religious hatred" bill restored. They lost the attempt by one vote. The result is that the UK has a law criminalising religious hatred, but a strong guarantee of free speech to criticise/mock/insult etc any and every religious belief system; but - things would have been very different without the lord`s input (ditto it was pressure from the lords which managed to make Straw and Blunkett`s adult porn bill less broad than it would otherwise have been). We nearly lost the right of free expression in these areas - they were preserved by the skin of our teeth.People would have risked arrest for expressing their opinions about a religion or religions.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30684.   Posted 7-May-2015 Thu 05:11]
  DarkAngel

One has to suspect that whichever parties win the election, there will be a fair few more MPs keen to criminalise men for crimes against equality.

DarkAngel5    [30683.   Posted 6-May-2015 Wed 09:37]
  This was on BBC news 24 earlier today, as part of Victoria Derbyshire`s programme.

Seems the police are looking at asking the govt to criminalise paying for sex again, as Northern Ireland bring in laws based on the Swedish model.

This was an excerpt on a much longer feature

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32539648

This was the debate afterwards

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02qs890

The whole programme can be viewed here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b05tr7ys/victoria-derbyshire-06052015

Skip forward to the 21 min mark to see the whole feature.

sergio    [30682.   Posted 27-Apr-2015 Mon 05:16]
  The Hole (2001) Keira Knightley was 15? Flashes boobs?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0242527/

Available at amazon.co.uk rated 15.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30681.   Posted 23-Apr-2015 Thu 03:49]
  sergio

`explicit` seems to bandied around as general purpose negative loaded term by moralists and campaigners.

In reality it is related to context. for instance sex in a TV drama could be described as implicit if a couple is shown drawing over the covers before a fade, but explicit if you see sexual movements, even below the covers. Here the point is the story line point as to whether the characters have sex or not.

However if the context is porn, one knows that sex will be depicted somehow, then explicit should mean hardcore whilst implicit would be softcore.

sergio    [30680.   Posted 23-Apr-2015 Thu 01:04]
  Is the phrase `sexually explicit` meaningless?

`and another in which a naked woman lay on her back with her legs apart and her hands covering her genitals, the images were sexually explicit.`

If she covers her genitals then how can it be related to the meaningless phrase `sexually explicit`?

Do you mean somehow it can be construed as relating to `sex`?

Is someone naked `sexually explicit`?

Therumbler    [30679.   Posted 20-Apr-2015 Mon 16:48]
  http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/edinburgh-saunas-police-raids-435

Police raids on saunas has negative consequences that were easily predicted.

Also research commonly used to support the Swedish model found to be questionable in that "People who have been using it (presumably without reading it) probably need to decide whether the study – once read beyond the abstract – shows that New Zealand and Sweden have pretty much the same outcomes in terms of ‘sex trafficking’, or whether it’s actually so unreliable and badly put together as to be functionally useless (ding ding ding)."

http://feministire.com/2015/04/13/a-favourite-piece-of-research-for-swedish-model-advocates-throws-up-a-few-surprises/

braintree    [30678.   Posted 19-Apr-2015 Sun 13:38]
  Regarding the quiz - it would be interesting to see what the BBFC would make of the Hammer movie "Never Take Sweets from a Stranger" should it ever appear here again.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30677.   Posted 19-Apr-2015 Sun 12:28]
  Sergio.

I would guess it is more the unviable age verification rules that would suffocate dreamsofspanking rather than the yearly censorship charge.

Perhaps Pandora Blake would stand more chance than most of subscribers paying up without being able to see the goods. Perhaps a few people would take the political activism as a means of proving good faith in buying goods unseen.

I remember one webmaster at a UK conference saying that he thinks that age verification is a good thing as his content is shite. If he had to show a sample free, he would get no customers. With up ATVOD rules he extracts the money up front and only then does the customer realise that he/she has wasted the money.

ATVOD`s rules are a scammer`s charter

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30676.   Posted 19-Apr-2015 Sun 12:19]
  Glenn Quagmire

Blood and Black Lace was heavily cut for a 1965 X rating. It was this cut version that was passed 15 by the BBFC. The uncut version was 18 rated by the BBFC. There can`t be many films from the mid sixties that have managed to maintain an 18 rating right up to the current day.

How about a quiz:

Which is the oldest film that has had a 21st century BBFC 18 rating?

I don`t know the answer, but my best guess would be Blood Feast from 1963

sergio    [30675.   Posted 19-Apr-2015 Sun 07:46]
  Although a bit miserablist and fascist, Rachel Johnson in her column gets hot about `gambling` and then suggests a national insurance number to be used to restrict players to being adult.
What do you think? Foolproof?

sergio    [30674.   Posted 19-Apr-2015 Sun 03:37]
  Is Pandora Blake - dreamsofspanking - going to be charged £137 or £183 per year by ATVOD?

Glenn Quagmire    [30673.   Posted 17-Apr-2015 Fri 04:33]
  I`m a little bit confused as to the release of "Blood And Black Lace". It was a 15 certificate and they`ve now upgraded it to an 18? I know the board have done this with PG films to a 12 but I`ve never heard of them raising a certificate from a 12 to 15 or 15 to 18. And I`m not including extras which can raise a certificate.

braintree    [30672.   Posted 15-Apr-2015 Wed 13:38]
  My point is that the BBFC certificate may make as much difference as it did in the 80`s when BBFC X Certificate versions of movies were found by courts to be obscene. This happened with several films IIRC. We already know that What the Peeper Saw had to be recut by the BBFC in 1978 when a new law came in so with this new law who`s to say current BBFC versions may not now be considered lawful. One would hope the common sense missing during the video nasties stupidity might not be absent today but this is the British Justice system we`re talking about here- the one that not so long ago was on course to prosecute a guy for having a so called bestiality video in his possession without noticing the animal in the video could actually talk.
This new law does seem to fly in the face of the BBFC who for quite some time have been claiming their aim is to make sure where possible that adults can decide for themselves what they want to watch. The DPA arrived in a form nobody asked for - has succeeded in prosecuting nobody it was designed to prosecute yet has prosecuted people for content that was never part of the original intended law and now has amendments that nobody asked for. When our MP`s go on their paid for freebies to other countries on so called fact finding missions why do they never visit countries like Holland and Denmark and ask what makes the UK so special it needs protection from things these other countries have no problems with . Apart from child porn pretty much anything goes in other parts of Europe yet society hasn`t crumbled. Look at the stuff Denmark has been turning out since 1969 and yet they`re still in one piece. Nobody looks at this because it doesn`t fit the UK Big Brother agenda

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30671.   Posted 15-Apr-2015 Wed 00:20]
  Braintree

Surely Baise Moi is in the realm of films that could lead to your persecution if the police decided were to trawl through your PC or DVD collection. However in this case the DVD happens to have an uncut BBFC certificate which makes it OK under the Dangerous Pictures Act

braintree    [30670.   Posted 14-Apr-2015 Tue 12:52]
  Presumably the new law won`t affect the Death Wish films as the rapes are not explicit enough to be considered pornographic but what happens to Baise Moi? Definitely a hardcore sequence. And I guess I`ll be going back to prison if the authorities find my dvd of Sex Wish.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30669.   Posted 11-Apr-2015 Sat 18:47]
  Braintree

Yes In the Realm of the Senses is now totally uncut since the 2011 Optimum release, with the previous reframing no longer required.

braintree    [30668.   Posted 10-Apr-2015 Fri 13:31]
  The sequence of Lester fondling Ekland has been included complete in all versions I`ve seen of the movie. Youtube has clips on there from VCI and that scene is complete where he places his hands over her breasts. I expect the BBFC would edit it out. The second questionable scene is where Lester gets her to strip in exchange for information. The US VHS did not include this but the long version on the dvd and the Bluray both include it. The final scene is the one where she gets into bed with him. This is uncut on the long version on the dvd but shortened on the cut version . The Bluray has the montage over most of the sequence. Neither of these 2 more dodgy scenes have been placed on Youtube by VCI.

Is "In the Realm of the Senses" still reframed or have the BBFC passed it uncut now?

sergio    [30667.   Posted 10-Apr-2015 Fri 02:48]
  I have to remind myself
http://www.bbfc.co.uk/case-studies/lempire-des-sens-realm-senses

In the Realm of the Senses has been passed by the BBFC with the tugging scenes of the little penis of the young and delicate child.

sergio    [30666.   Posted 10-Apr-2015 Fri 02:25]
  braintree[30665] I am not familiar with the Sylvia Kristel scene.
I`ve seen some youtube clips (yes, youtube!) that show scenes from `What the Peeper Saw`.
They show the child naked in the bath (genitals covered I think with a toy) and a scene where the child is about to fondle the clothed breasts of that gorgeous blonde Britt Ekland. IS about to, but we don`t see any contact. Is that the part that is cut?
Is a child fondling a woman`s clothed breasts a potential hazard?

I only know of the Japanese movie Ai no korida/In the Realm of the Senses where I think I read that the mentally ill woman yanks the penis of the small boy and the scene is cut (reframed) by the BBFC.

braintree    [30665.   Posted 9-Apr-2015 Thu 14:04]
  Sergio - the bootleg quality and the US habit of Public Domain releases on both VHS and dvd indicate to me that neither the VHS or dvd releases were official in that the contents of the release were supplied or paid for by the films owner. US law used to state that copyright needed renewing every 28 years. Would it be surprising if it turned out that copyright on this film was not renewed - which allows for legal bootleg releases in the US. The Bluray on the other hand while not perfect is clearly a good quality 35mm print. The VHS looks second generation at best and both versions on dvd look vhs quality. I`m not sure the dodgy scene could be said to be censored as such. The history of the film does make it look likely that alternate shots etc were filmed with slightly different versions shown in different countries and I`m guessing that as the film became a bit of a hot potato not that many years after it was made that the owners didn`t care about the original elements and it might also be one of those movies where ownership has changed over the years so what remains of the movie is moved about so eventually all that is left is a set of different prints in differing conditions with none being very well preserved due to the fact that due to its content home video and tv broadcasts were not something the film ever got which is why it was so difficult for VCI to get a good quality version let alone one that is practically complete. This is all guess work though. The obscurity of the movie and the fact that nobody seemed to know this new release wasn`t quite complete makes this look like it really has been forgotten by everybody including those who own it.

The Televista release shown is in fact the Substance release I had with 2 versions on .My box had the Substance company details on it. Televista are apparently well known for releasing unofficial bootleg titles ( they have a bootleg dvd of the BBC`s Bernard and the Genie amongst their releases). Another pointer that the dvd was a PD bootleg was the cover which is identical to the VHS right down to the shape of the image. It was just like the VHS cover copied to a dvd box but with no effort to fill the shape of the new case.
According to the TV Times this film was aired by Thames tv in 1975 but who knows what version that would be.
I really would love to see interview footage from Mark Lester and Britt Ekland to see what they make of it now. How the tabloids have never picked up on it to attack Ekland is a mystery. I doubt you`d go to prison but the BBFC would certainly edit the dodgy scene in its entirety I would think. The shorter version also omits entirely the sequence where Lester forces Ekland to strip in front of him in exchange for information and I suspect the BBFC would remove most of that as its clear that Lester was present when the scene was shot and Ekland gets naked. Similarly the UK version of Private Lessons with Sylvia Kristel was badly cut by the BBFC even though the male actor was clearly of age but they censored it because the impression the film tries to give is that the boy is underage so some of the key scenes like the bath sequence are removed. I`m not certain but I get the impression that when this film was released it may have been uncut here as it falls into the teenage boy fantasy type story and that its only been cut for dvd due to the current UK obsession with underage sex.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30664.   Posted 9-Apr-2015 Thu 02:11]
  Re What the Peeper Saw

Thanks Braintree, an interesting update which I added to MF.

Presumably the censored scene in the VCI DVD prevents people being sent straight to prison but maybe a warning is required about the uncut releases noted.

Re Human Centipede 3.

I am looking forward to the Daily Mail reports. Maybe another `Sickest Film Ever`. I should start a book on how many times the Daily Mail uses the word `vile` in connection with reports on HC3.

sergio    [30663.   Posted 9-Apr-2015 Thu 00:51]
  Braintree[30661]
I am confused
` I think this may be the films first ever official release.`
The vhs is unofficial? Or is it first ever official dvd release?

`Substance went onto release a dvd with 2 versions on`
There is one from Studio: Televista on dvd http://www.amazon.co.uk/What-Peeper-Saw-Region-NTSC/dp/B000GAKD0Q
Is that the 2 version dvd ?

Can you get to prison and not pass go if in possession of this dvd?

goatboy    [30662.   Posted 8-Apr-2015 Wed 19:08]
  Interesting to see if any government ever went after mainstream websites over porn; eg there is a huge amount of porn on twitter but it`s not really noticeable unless you start looking for accounts with `xxx` in their names. Those sites would presumably be more politically difficult to go after than sites where porn is the sole point.

Human Centipede 3 has a USA release date, May 22nd (Cinemas + VOD) so you`d assume the bbfc will be seeing it soon. I`m sure I speak for everyone here when I say I hope the bbfc enjoy the movie! http://spinoff.comicbookresources.com/2015/04/08/human-centipede-3-snags-release-date-revolting-synopsis/

braintree    [30661.   Posted 7-Apr-2015 Tue 12:57]
  Regarding What the Peeper Saw , the scene in question is included in the Bluray but after it starts the old footage showing the section where Ekland gets into bed with Lester - and she`s clearly naked - has a montage placed over that bit although the soundtrack continues just as it does in the full version. I think this may be the films first ever official release. The original US VHS was the drastically shortened version and was not very good quality. Substance went onto release a dvd with 2 versions on . One was the short version and the other was the most complete version ever and includes the controversial moments missing from the Bluray although both versions on the dvd are very obviously transferred from a domestic tape source. Once I alerted VCI to the missing footage the guy in charge did confirm that they had searched high and low for the best possible source and while the Bluray doesn`t look as good as a regular 35mm film would its the first time the film has looked anything close to being official. It`s still worth getting for it`s notoriety but a shame that VCI didn`t look at the dvd beforehand - they could then at least have added the footage albeit in far lesser quality. As its a Limited Edition and unlikely to appear elsewhere you should get it while you can if you have the slightest interest in it.

sergio    [30660.   Posted 7-Apr-2015 Tue 07:52]
  That human rights act, seems to me like a fair chunk of gobbledygook.

`Article 18: Limitations on use of Restrictions on Rights

The restrictions permitted under this Convention to the said rights and freedoms shall not be applied for any purpose other than those for which they have been prescribed.`

You`ve got a right to do something only if there is no law against it.
What?

phantom    [30659.   Posted 4-Apr-2015 Sat 16:33]
  Melon Farmers (Dave) {30656}
I hate to say I told you so, but wasn`t that precisely what I predicted some time ago?

The most depressing thing is that we are heading towards censorial nirvana with the fatal inevitability of Greek tragedy.

The end goal is clear to see.
One is simply rehearsing the arguments which will lead to a giant firewall by which to ban all non-UK adult content.

Calling it `Tory nastiness` really serves no purpose.
Point me to one single party who are not intent on doing it.

phantom    [30658.   Posted 4-Apr-2015 Sat 16:27]
  Melon Farmers (Dave) [30657]

""Anyone whose body mass index... is below a certain level will not be able to work as a catwalk model," it said."

and

"The deputy previously said models would have to present a medical certificate showing a BMI - the ratio of height to weight - of at least 18 before being hired for a job."

Those statements are taken from the BBC link I gave.
They seem pretty unambiguous.

It`s not just the BBC.

Reuters:
http://tinyurl.com/lue5f4l
Telegraph:
http://tinyurl.com/k4oq8j9
The Guardian:
http://tinyurl.com/my26jkg
NBCNews:
http://tinyurl.com/pd4llcm

This really doesn`t seem to be the media spinning an exaggerated yarn based on a half truth, but simply a reporting of fact.
France has banned skinny models.

The message is clear: Skinny models have no rights. Because seeing skinny models is bad for you.
I`m surprised the French parliament hasn`t followed its conviction through to its natural conclusion.
Skinny women ought to wear burkhas in public by law, in order not to corrupt other women`s minds by visual exposure.
After all, if it corrupts on the catwalk, why not on the street?

What is the betting that obese MPs like Dianne Abbott will be all in favour of introducing such a law in Britain?

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30657.   Posted 4-Apr-2015 Sat 02:42]
  phantom,

I read that France had decided not to ban slim models. The law will target more positive incitement to skininess, notably pro-ana websites. i will have another look round though

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30656.   Posted 4-Apr-2015 Sat 01:13]
  Is this new Tory nastiness about age verification for porn or just a rehash of the current ATVOD approach?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32180744


Javid said: "If you want to buy a hardcore pornography DVD in a store you need to prove your age to the retailers".

"With the shift to online, children can access adult content on websites without restriction, intentionally or otherwise".

"That is why we need effective controls online that apply to UK and overseas. This is about giving children the best start in life".



phantom    [30655.   Posted 3-Apr-2015 Fri 17:22]
  So here we are. Another example of truly astonishing censorship.
Feminism at its finest.
France has banned skinny fashion models.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32174364
Apparently this follows suit from countries such as Italy.

Why? Well, apparently it promotes an `unhealthy body image` to women.
Immediately one is pointed to anorexia and bulimia.
Because of course that is the big body issue of the day. - Not obesity.
Suffice to say, fat models (in danger of diabetes and heart disease) are still perfectly permissible under French and Italian law.

We`ve all heard the feminists screeching about body image.
Hell, recently there have even been complaints that Cinderella`s waist in the new Disney movie is too slim.
(I kid you not. http://tinyurl.com/qhj9qgt)
I am in no doubt that, after the two fashion capitals of the world have banned skinny models, we will soon see legislation advanced here in Britain too.

But please, let`s think about this.
Feminism is supposed to be about empowering women, isn`t it? I read that as its purpose being to provide more women with more opportunities.
Last time I looked skinny women are women too. Have they no rights?

If a fat woman were to be refused access to a bus for being fat, there would be a riot in the media.
But refusing a thin woman the right to have a job walking catwalks is applauded.

How has this happened ?
Once more feminism finds itself advocating a policy which actually reduces the rights of women.
After all, a section of women have just lost their existing right to be high paid fashion models.
So a new glass ceiling – introduced in the name of feminism!

We are again in the sticky territory of offence.
Many women claim `offence` at seeing these skinny models held up as ideals – because they themselves are neither skinny, nor slim.
So these models` right to earn a living must be curbed to protect other women from said `offence`.
Clearly, offence trumps everything these days. Even your right to earn a living.

Moreover, the theory that people can be corrupted by seeing images is upheld as sheer fact. Women see skinny models, thus they turn anorexic. Does that thinking sound familiar?

The obvious irony that skinny models ought to be persecuted during an obesity epidemic in the western world seems lost to just about every politician.

So there you go. Don`t be thin. It`s the newest crime of our time. If you`re a girl.

braintree    [30654.   Posted 3-Apr-2015 Fri 14:01]
  It`s nearly 10 years since I spent 8 weeks at her majestys pleasure thanks to selling dvd`s of hardcore porn recorded from satellite , specifically because some of the films included "fisting". As I didn`t fight the charges ( I was guilty of others) my prosecution went down as another success against fisting content. In the last few years a couple of brave souls fought the Obscene Publications Act on fisting and both won their cases . The BBFC admit they are aware of these cases yet they continue to cut such footage because the CPS still include fisting in their list of obscene acts. Why don`t any of the studios releasing this content make an appeal . It was an appeal around 2000 that lead to hardcore becoming legal and how can the CPS continue to go against the court verdicts? A successful appeal will lead to the CPS needing to rewrite their rulebooks.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30653.   Posted 3-Apr-2015 Fri 08:30]
  Re lies

A fascinating perspective. The rules of political correctness back this up. For instance it is perfectly acceptable and encouraged to spout any old bollox about what adult entertainment may `cause` men to do, the more ludicrous the claim, the better. And the PC rules then demand that all adherents support these lies no matter how blatant.

It is so commonplace, that every person attaching to acause now expects to be able to bully everyone else into submission. It is becoming a very fractious world.

Therumbler    [30652.   Posted 2-Apr-2015 Thu 15:11]
  https://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/uk-porn-addiction-teenagers-304#

Read it about the NSPCC`s recent survey. It was not at all scientific and used a marketing company to get results.

phantom    [30651.   Posted 2-Apr-2015 Thu 06:17]
  re: Children`s `charities` get nasty about internet censorship...

I too met the children`s charities campaign on internet porn with disbelief.
The BBC reported it as though the charities reference to `depression` and `pressure to have sex early` as effects of exposure to porn were established fact and not mere opinion forwarded by the charities in question.
The deliberate blurring of lines in this field is now becoming endemic. Nobody ever speaks what they know to be the truth anymore, but instead all engage in this presentation of pseudo-facts in furtherance of their agenda.

And yes, I can only heartily agree with Alan`s comments.
The Perrin case is one which pops up time and time again. Let us not forget that the DPA also used the Perrin case as a basis.
The fact that the case itself represents an outrage of pure injustice does not seem to bother anyone among the ranks of those using it so freely as a supposed legal foundation for their prohibition demands.

It seems to me that to base one`s demands on a legal injustice is quite telling.
For one, it illustrates that one is concerned more by ends than by means. As long as one gets one`s way, one is not really that concerned how it is achieved.
Much the same can also be said about the use of pseudo-evidence about `depression` and `pressure on girls` caused by porn. Lying it appears, is acceptable, if it leads to the goal one desires.

The above is ironic, if one considers that this is supposed to be about what is good for children.
For what could in fact be a worse example to set to children, than to seek to achieve one`s aims by deceits and injustice?

What is the greater evil? Pornography or a society in which even charities lie and connive in order to achieve the personal desires of those who run them?

It was professor Harry G. Frankfurt who wrote a book called `On Bullshit`.
In it he contends that truth has an inherent value to any society. That if all and sundry lie, this damages our societies. For if everyone lies, everyone expects everyone else to lie. Nothing can be believed anymore.
PR agencies and politicians have in effect ruined what was once a fairly truthful society. Now everything is `presentation`. So if one need bend the truth a little to achieve a better impression, so be it. Thus, no company CEO, no minister of the crown, not even a bishop, ever speak the truth anymore. They present. So too now apparently do charities.

The simple truth is that this ubiquity of PR speak, or `bullshit` as Frankfurt puts it, is many times more damaging than any effect pornography could ever exact on us.

Lying is more harmful to society than flesh.

freeworld    [30650.   Posted 29-Mar-2015 Sun 14:33]
  phantom [30649. Posted 29-Mar-2015 Sun 07:20]
SNP legislation is nationalising people`s children - the level of state intrusion being introduced is horrifying - the agenda to replace the family with the state`s "benign care" is even more well advanced where these cod nationalists, until recently led by a well fed, wealthy "ex Maoist", hold power.

Yes indeed, the advance of the Stasi state, or, more aptly, the advance of the Common Purpose/Frankfurt school institution long marchers state.

Read and shudder...

http://niklowe.blogspot.co.uk/2015/03/state-guardians.html

phantom    [30649.   Posted 29-Mar-2015 Sun 07:20]
  When is a threat `help`, I wonder?
When it`s from a school head teacher, apparently.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-32103991

The Stasi society advances on and on.
Here are head teachers effectively volunteering to turn state informers, in order to `help` people.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30648.   Posted 28-Mar-2015 Sat 12:25]
  Re Commando

The Director`s cut contains extra violence originally cut in the US for an R rating during the tool shed scene:

-The pitchfork killing features additional reaction from the soldier as he dies and an extra shot as he slumps to the floor
-Schwarzenegger throws a second circular saw blade which embeds itself into the neck of a bad guy, lots of blood, and more reaction from the soldier as he puts is hands to his neck.
-The guy who is axed in the groin is shown in agony longer
-The guy with the severed arm is seen lying on the floor, stump in the air, screaming for a second or two longer and for an extra shot when is crawling on the ground.

So the main censorship UK timeline is

1985 cut in the US for an R rating
1985-2001 further cut by the BBFC and later even more cuts appeared as German version was released in the UK
2007 Directors Cut passed uncut by the BBFC but not released
2007 Directors Cut released in the US
2008 BBFC cuts waived to the theatrical version so that the UK release of that year was the same as the US R rated version
2015 Directors Cut released in the UK (with the uncut BBFC certificate from 2007)

braintree    [30647.   Posted 27-Mar-2015 Fri 14:36]
  Re todays story about Commando. I`m assuming there is more to the Directors Cut than restoring BBFC cuts as these were waived in 2007 ( as the story says) and the 2008 Bluray restores all these cuts and is the same original theatrical version as released on Bluray elsewhere. Is the DC title perhaps for MPAA cuts restored rather than BBFC ones?

http://www.dvdcompare.net/comparisons/film.php?fid=12831

freeworld    [30646.   Posted 25-Mar-2015 Wed 05:59]
  Sabreman64 {30645. Posted 25-Mar-2015 Wed 04:35}
Every time somebody knuckles under to these sanctimonious little Torquemadas they gain strength and confidence. It`s way past time they were told in no uncertain terms to mind their own business and stop their interference in our lives. Unfortunately the political class/ Establishment panders to this screechy minority continually - because it`s noisy and persistent, but they are far from representative of public opinion. A concerted fightback needs to be made against these heretic hunting bullies, which starts with not caving in to their noise, intimidation and harassment.

Sabreman64    [30645.   Posted 25-Mar-2015 Wed 04:35]
  http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/mar/25/daily-stars-page-3-ads-banned-for-being-sexist-and-offensive

Yawn. Another day, another ad banned by the damn ASA for being `sexist` or for causing `widespread offence`. Of course, the feminazis at Object were one of the complainers, despite the fact that they would never buy the Daily Star anyway.

Honestly, all this fuss over `sexism`, `objectification` and `sexualisation` of women, and other such nonsense just makes me want to go out and buy as many non-PC and `sexist` books, magazines and other products as possible as a way of sticking two fingers up at all these miserable killjoy whingers.

freeworld    [30644.   Posted 25-Mar-2015 Wed 02:57]
  Rearing it`s ugly head again. Ulster will have it in June, I think. Those taking an interest in such things at the time will recall the Brown government moving towards the "Swedish model" just before it lost power in 2010 - with the prospect of a Labour government again in May, we could be see its resurrection as party policy ( McTaggart was defeated in her last "private" attempt not long ago).

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/24/should-it-be-illegal-to-pay-for-sex-work-law-northern-ireland

phantom    [30643.   Posted 23-Mar-2015 Mon 19:32]
  I`m sure they did cut those words, goatboy.
In fact I remember to which two episodes you refer there. (and two episodes, given that they`ve made over 150 episodes so far is very, very tame)
But the fact is that a great deal more than `whore` and `slut` is cut.
Big Bang is just about as mainstream and inoffensive as you can get in a sitcom these days.
The fact that Channel 4 sees fit to cut something out of just about every episode in pre-watershed broadcast is cause for concern.
I would class this series as in tune with modern taste and sensibilities as one can get.
To find fault even in this, one must really try hard.
But channel 4 manages.
One wonders just who encourages them to do this...

goatboy    [30642.   Posted 23-Mar-2015 Mon 17:48]
  C4 cuts the words `whore` and `slut` from the pre watershed Big Bang, they`ve always been cut in the 6/6.30pm E4 slots.

phantom    [30641.   Posted 23-Mar-2015 Mon 16:15]
  re: Big Bang Theory

It`s been going on for some time. I believe i myself have mentioned the cutting of Big Bang dialogue once or twice on here.
It is utterly incomprehensible to me why something as innocent as this sitcom would be cut, but it is happening on a daily basis.
It seems any screening before the watershed has any line which is even mildly suggestive removed.
The very fact that something so mild can be deemed worthy of cutting does not bode well for any other TV content.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30640.   Posted 22-Mar-2015 Sun 01:31]
  Braintree, re Don`t lose your head.

I added the note. I couldn`t find anything else on the cuts, so given the difference in production set up, then it does seem likely that the company treated the cuts differently to most Carry On films, and kept the cut material for future use. Thanks for the info.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30639.   Posted 20-Mar-2015 Fri 12:55]
  Phantom re D & G

A Spiked article about the PC bullies launching into D&G

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/dg-said-something-we-disagree-with-destroy-those-deviants/16780

phantom    [30638.   Posted 19-Mar-2015 Thu 19:43]
  re: Aw...poor little things...

Stunning. So police officers may have to attend a real murder scene, detailing all the real gore.
But to view some `extreme porn` may be too much for them.
Wow.

Better yet, the judge insisted it was not a `victimless crime`.
Who, pray, is the victim, m`lud? The horse?

braintree    [30637.   Posted 17-Mar-2015 Tue 15:19]
  Re: todays story about cuts to Carry On - Don`t Lose Your Head.
The line "You`ve always had magnificent balls" is said to be cut but I`m sure its included. That very line is included in the opening montage of the theatrical "That`s Carry On" so unless it`s not in the original film and the cut clip is only seen in the compilation ( which was made 10 years later) it would indicate that at least that cut is restored to the film. It was the first or second of the Rank films , now owned by ITV and it wasn`t until Carlton/ITV got hold of them that the original 15 version of Carry On England was seen again. Uncut for an AA it lasted about a week in the cinema where it bombed and was withdrawn and recut for an A. It was the A version that played on tv , was released on video etc. But the uncut version was retained so perhaps the uncut versions of the other Rank films are also in the vaults. When Carlton released England on dvd well over a decade ago it was something of a treat to actually get a choice to watch either version. Shame it had to be one of the worst of the series. The disc with dvd/magazine collection only included one version (not sure which one)

phantom    [30636.   Posted 17-Mar-2015 Tue 08:08]
  I found the story of Elton John regards Dolce & Gabbana interesting.
The BBC gave it wall to wall coverage on TV and radio.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-31906315

At its heart it was a call for punitive action, because someone had voiced an opinion.

It perfectly chimes with the current trends of militancy whereby some seek to silence those who hold an opposing opinion.

The fact that Dolce was accused of being `anti-gay` for his comments when he is in fact himself homosexual shows just how insane the claims here have become.

You must conform to the mainstream view or people will seek to silence you. Here Dolce & Gabbana are threatened with economic sanctions unless they publicly repent and confirm that they `think right`.

There can be no doubt that we are looking at a form of censorship here. One facilitated by the new phenomenon of social media.

It seems to have struck next to none of the celebs lining up behind Elton John that maybe Dolce - in a supposedly free society - has every right to voice his opinion.
Whether one actually agrees with him or not, surely is irrelevant.
The man may say or think what he likes - without people `taking offence` and then seeking to exact their vengeance.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30635.   Posted 17-Mar-2015 Tue 01:37]
  Braintree

Never has so much power been granted to censorship by private company and they impose it so incredibly arbitrarily and ruthlessly. They can trash an entire company in a computer generated decision. Yet no one seems to bother opposing this except for the very few high profile cases where the naff rules get mass publicity.

braintree    [30634.   Posted 15-Mar-2015 Sun 14:13]
  Seems definite that Ebay will not allow listings for the Arrow UK release of Nekromantik. After someone else reported having theirs removed I put it down to traditional ebay incompetence but when I listed mine it too was removed . Their email explains it was removed under their "Violent Material" conditions. Not a single listing for the UK set but quite a few for the US release. I expect its still down to ebay incompetence and remains a flagged title going back to the days when it would have raised eyebrows and they`ve not bothered to remove it from their forbidden list. I had it happen to a dvd of I Spit On your Grave once when I listed the uncut US disc. But I just relisted that and it sold without a hitch. Will sell this one on Amazon at some point instead. Don`t think ebay would genuinely ban a title officially UK classified by the BBFC

Re todays Disney story. At the moment Disney is being run by idiots it would seem as their choices in titles to release on Bluray or not would indicate. No 3D discs in the US , many titles not released at all in the UK and of course the "restoration" of their animated titles has become farcical. But to the main issue of today which is smoking- and one of their earlier movies Melody Time was released on dvd quite some time ago and one of the characters in it Pecos Bill has been "adjusted" to remove the cigarette that he has in his mouth all the time so this smoking ban is not new. Curiously the US disc is edited but the existing UK dvd contains the unedited version.

phantom    [30633.   Posted 14-Mar-2015 Sat 17:36]
  re: Offsite Article: Are you reading too many books by straight white men?

The mind truly boggles.
I have always been staggered at there being a perceived need for a Bailey`s `Women`s prize for Fiction` these days.
But a call to boycott white male writers is so surreal it beggars belief.

Have any of these feminist darlings calling for such a boycott (or awarding female authors` prizes) ever heard of Agatha Christie, The Bronte Sisters, J.K.Rowling, Barbara Taylor Bradford or Jane Austen?

How could anyone ever conclude that women are discriminated against in writing and publishing?

One wonders. One truly wonders what goes on in their little heads. :)

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30632.   Posted 13-Mar-2015 Fri 19:13]
  Thanks goatboy, I will take a look

Maybe a bit political as opposed to politically correct, but I thought this interview over a pint with Nigel Farage is just about the most refreshing political piece I have read during the current election campaign.

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/im-taking-on-the-establishment-and-they-hate-me-for-it/16758

goatboy    [30631.   Posted 13-Mar-2015 Fri 16:29]
  A guy was jailed for 4 months in Glasgow for singing the song `The Billy Boys` in public.

Slightly excessive. Have one hell of a task banning all songs with discriminatory language ultimately. Wonder if they`ll try to lift Eminem next time he`s over? ;)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-31856341

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30630.   Posted 13-Mar-2015 Fri 04:34]
  No it isn`t odd. It just should be.

It may be quite fun to see a little unregulated electioneering on YouTube, just allowing them to swear at the opposition would be amusing.

phantom    [30629.   Posted 12-Mar-2015 Thu 07:41]
  On yesterday`s news (might have been Newsnight) the BBC alluded to how the political parties having a right ding dong online with negative campaign ads and video clips.
How so?
Because the same rules do not apply to political ads online as do for broadcasts and advertising hoardings.

Odd isn`t it? Given that the parties in question always claim to be very keen for the same rules which apply to the `real world` also to apply online.

But apparently not if it concerns them.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30628.   Posted 10-Mar-2015 Tue 04:49]
  Glenn

Indeed this linkage between the viewer and the rapist has been a major issue for the BBFC. Strangely this time round it doesn`t figure so much in the BBFC`s write up of their ban. Maybe because the details portrayed are not quite so clear. This time round seems more related to the relentless thuggery coupled with the racist setting.

Glenn Quagmire    [30627.   Posted 9-Mar-2015 Mon 10:33]
  I think I can see why the BBFC have banned "Hate Crime". I`ve seen the film and it seems to me that the biggest problem with the film is that it`s shot through a video camera so, in effect, you are the perpetrator. There`s a scene where a woman is raped over a pool table and the rapist films it. You see it from his viewpoint. It`s why they cut the remake of "I Spit On Your Grave".

phantom    [30626.   Posted 2-Mar-2015 Mon 18:14]
  re: Adultery law is found to be cheating on the people...

"The law is unconstitutional as it infringes people`s right to make their own decisions on sex and secrecy and freedom of their private life, violating the principle banning excessive enforcement under the constitution."

Must be nice to have a written constitution. What lucky few the South Koreans are.

Er, didn`t we fight for their freedom?

Ironic, isn`t it?

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30625.   Posted 1-Mar-2015 Sun 09:57]
  Phantom,

A fascinating analysis that is very persuasive and I concur with most of it.

I don`t think you will be far wrong that the prevention strategies will be prove to be a blind alley and terrorism will continue unabated.

I would like to add though that more likely factors of religion, culture, money, opportunity and general intolerance may be equally futile to identify. These are the sort of factors, even if correctly identified, would take generations to lead people away from. I rather fear that there is nothing much we can do to make the problem go away.

phantom    [30624.   Posted 28-Feb-2015 Sat 18:50]
  I wonder. Is it only me who thinks this?
A doctrine seems to have sneaked into the nation`s thinking on terrorism, which seems to have originated from a rather familiar field – censorship of porn and violence.

Here`s what I mean.
The BBFC-style pseudo-scientific nonsense of people aping what they see in photos and film has effectively been accepted as official doctrine by the entire establishment.
Hence we`ve seen a whole raft of irrational legislation trying to bar the mere sight of things which might `harm` us.

But this thinking seems now to be polluting other areas of policy. (Always a danger with strictly doctrinal thinking.)

Where are all the Islamists getting radicalised? Why, on the internet, of course.
They see stuff and then become raving lunatics, foaming at the mouth.
Does this not sound oddly familiar?

Do we really believe that watching some preacher spouting the need to kill and destroy on youtube would turn anyone into some mindless drone wanting to chop people`s heads off.
Surely, such preachers can only preach to the converted.
Nobody else will ever grant them any credence.

Once again the notion of `vulnerable, young men` rears its ugly head.
Oh, of course it would not affect you and me. No. Only the `vulnerable`.

But I hold that no reasonable Muslim, no matter how devout, will watch some bloke in Yemen mouthing off about the need to slaughter and will then turn into a `sleeper` waiting for an opportune moment to attack the London Underground.
It`s just blatant nonsense.

But everyone in power subscribes to it.

The government (who want more powers over the net), the schools and Muslim society (who want to be absolved of any responsibility) and the press (who hate the internet with a passion, due to it gradually destroying their industry).

So the internet it is and something must be done.

The truth is that Islamist propaganda on the net is ludicrous.
Despite our being told how `sophisticated` it is, it is fairly idiotic, put together by people who have watched a few too many Rambo movies and think ninjas are cool.
If I see one more example of Jihadis dressed in black, attempting an assault course in which one of the obstacles is a burning circus ring through which to jump, I`ll have a seizure.

And if some bearded chap, trying to look regal, talking to camera, trying to explain why Allah perfectly justifies the killing of anything that moves, is supposed to be convincing, then why are not droves of other sects more successful?

If it`s that easy, then surely all the established churches, the moonies, jehova`s witnesses or the scientologists need to do is upload plenty of youtube clips and thousands will come flocking to their ranks. After all, it`s that simple to brainwash people into thinking what you think, if only it`s on camera.

Unless it`s all nonsense.

Unless, the wholesale embrace of BBFC-style doctrine into mainstream politics has led us down a blind alley.

Having taken a foolish idea, - namely that watching zombie films can turn you into a psycho-killer and that watching porn will turn you into a rapist, - and having applied it to a different subject we have drawn a totally wrong conclusion.

The war with the terrorists is not online.
Pointing to the fact that the various nutjobs who have killed had visited sites containing hate preachers or other pages expressing sympathy with terrorists means nothing.
Of course they visited such sites. Because they were Islamist nutjobs.
What other sites would we expect Islamist nutjobs to visit?

It`s the old fallacy of pointing to rapists having viewed porn.
Again the blatant transference of thinking is obvious.

The problem is that in the case of terrorism getting it wrong could literally mean the difference between life or death for some.

The problem of radicalisation of Muslims lies not on the net. It never has done. It never will do.
Finding where this radicalisation truly occurs is of the utmost importance.

But charging down blind allies due to the flawed thinking of self-appointed `experts` of mind-corruption at the BBFC in this case is not merely wasteful, but downright dangerous.

Opinions welcome....

Therumbler    [30623.   Posted 27-Feb-2015 Fri 16:50]
  I`ve had a brief search through Google and I can`t see any articles referring to this new law affecting Manwin and similar sites that might be based there.

Then again, how many times has Melonfarmers and a relatively few other sites/commentators looked at laws with big implications that have been ignored elsewhere until they`ve already been passed? Like they recent UK online porn laws, which were ignored by the media until they had come into effect.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30622.   Posted 27-Feb-2015 Fri 00:35]
  Therumbler

I didn`t release that Manwin did operate from there. Yes could be a major issue. I think other major TV/video/internet companies operate from there too.

Therumbler    [30621.   Posted 26-Feb-2015 Thu 17:29]
  Does the new law in Luxembourg mean Manwin will have to leave?

Therumbler    [30620.   Posted 22-Feb-2015 Sun 16:36]
  I see Jack Straw`s political career is on the ropes. He wasn`t a man sympathetic to our general attitude to media, was he?

phantom    [30619.   Posted 13-Feb-2015 Fri 06:10]
  re: More people to be persecuted for extreme pornography...

"More nasty laws generated by crap politicians who seem to get a kick out of jailing innocent people"

Well put, Dave.
It has long appeared to me that the crass desire to interfere with other people`s sexual interests is in fact a sexual fetish of its own.

Personally, I regard it as a sort of molestation. Just as a woman might not appreciate having her behind grabbed at a bus station, so do I think most people abhor the government sticking its hand down their knickers in these incessant sexual prohibitions.

But chances are it is a sort of control fetish, - Fifty Shades of Westminster Grey, so to speak, - whereby certain people in power are actually sexually driven to these acts of sexual control.
Who knows, to those of a submissive bent, this `being controlled` may in fact prove gratifying.

But what is clear to me is that the drive to control our collective sexuality appears so compulsive that it may indeed be a syndrome.
You may be familiar with Stockholm Syndrome, the condition attributed to some victims of kidnapping, whereby they begin to bond with their captors.
Who knows, there may be such a thing as `Westminster Syndrome` whereby the mere act of being in power creates the irrational desire to delve into other people`s sexual habits and desires in order to interfere.

What is evident is that the symptoms displayed so vividly by politicians make it quite clear that the condition is highly abnormal...

phantom    [30618.   Posted 11-Feb-2015 Wed 12:28]
  freeworld

I agree with your summation of the Green Party. I too would rather see them as authoritarian than libertarian. As said, i can only imagine that their stance on animal rights is being counted as a huge plus on `civil liberties`. I cannot otherwise see how they can be so far in the liberal sphere on that graph.

As for UKIP however, I would point you to the very paragraph you`ve quoted.
It is an explanation why they are positioned so far to the right on the graph, not why they are positioned so far in the authoritarian domain.
The term `neoliberal` denotes macro-economic views, not anything to do with the libertarian/authoritarian spectrum.
So, no, the author is not, as you allege, denoting them as authoritarian for any NHS policy.
Just as with the Greens their position on the libertarian/authoritarian spectrum is unexplained.
I would very much like to know what the author`s thinking was.
But it is not apparent from that article alone.

freeworld    [30617.   Posted 11-Feb-2015 Wed 09:56]
  phantom [30615. Posted 10-Feb-2015 Tue 15:34]

"... the first election in which UKIP is.. seen in its true colours...as a deeply conservative one that largely endorses the neoliberal agenda. Nigel Farage’s recent shift from unequivocal support for health care free at the point of use underlines this reality."

- Political compass

Clearly this writer thinks advocating an insurance based health service system - as operated in many western countries, makes you more of an "authoritarian"! I certainly don`t accept that. Or that economic "neoliberalism" has much bearing on making a society more "authoritarian" at all. In fact, I believe the opposite - the more "neoliberal", the less statist and thus authoritarian a society will usually be. China under Mao and the USSR under Stalin and co were scarcely "neoliberal" economically, but extremely authoritarian - in fact, totalitarian (same goes for Nazi Germany which had a highly state interventionist command economy - though business/industry was still largely privately owned, the economy was massively state directed and that state was very socially interventionist too - nothing "neoliberal" about it - just like the communist ones, it was authoritarian/totalitarian).

This kind of highly statist approach to society and the economy is very much along the same lines as the one the Green party offers; here it`s being promoted as a "cuddly" version of what is actually the same old "we know what`s best for you" (and we are going to give it to you!) authoritarianism - statist intervention/direction from macro to micro levels - a programme for the greenly sanctimonious statist.

As CS Lewis put it so very well decades ago -

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron`s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”

― C.S. Lewis

Non authoritarian, indeed!

DoodleBug    [30616.   Posted 10-Feb-2015 Tue 23:51]
  Woke up this morning to find an email from Ebay saying that they have removed a listing of mine for a DVD because it violates their policy on violent content.

The title in question ??? Nekromantik. A film which is now perfectly legal to own in the UK !

What makes this even more laughable is that it was a listing that was closed because someone bought it yesterday !

Doing a search on Ebay for Nekromantik still shows results from other sellers. If i remember rightly didn`t a similar thing happen a few years ago when someone listed the "Box of the Banned" boxset from Anchor Bay ?

phantom    [30615.   Posted 10-Feb-2015 Tue 15:34]
  Melon Farmers (Dave) [30613]
freeworld [30614]
On the whole I`d say it`s a very laudable attempt at a graphic
depiction of political positions.

Yes, I too am a little perplexed as to how the Greens got to be so far into libertarian territory.
No policies spring to mind which would put them there. Yes, they support legalisation of prostitution, but that policy alone cannot make up for that huge gap.
I suspect that the creator of the graph takes the Green`s commitment to animal rights and welfare into consideration, thus equating civil rights with animal rights. Not very helpful.

But all in all, one thing becomes clear.
There simply is no meaningful representation of liberal views in UK politics today.
It demonstrates that the democratic choice presented to the people today is a false one.
One is permitted to choose between right and left, but the most liberal minded nation on earth is not given any liberal choices, lest they choose them....

As for your comment on health, Freeworld, I think the comment on UKIP being neo-liberal is aimed at their economic policy (i.e. liberal=`laisser faire` economic policy), which I guess is code for `right-wing`. Which is where the health service comes into it.
so I don`t think one is saying their views on health service make them authoritarian.

As such I am surprised at how authoritarian UKIP are portrayed in that graph. Sure, they`d be tough on immigration, which would surely push them up that scale, but I can`t really point to any great number of harsh, authoritarian policies. Personally, I would suspect they would be authoritarians, but I cannot actually point to anything solid.

Than again, I guess much of that graph must be done by feel.
But it`s a very creditable attempt. I applaud whoever did it.

freeworld    [30614.   Posted 10-Feb-2015 Tue 09:48]
  Melon Farmers (Dave) [30613. Posted 10-Feb-2015 Tue 04:13]
If you look at the Green programme they`re horribly authoritarian/bossy on a whole range of issues.They are in many ways an embodiment of student union authoritarian PC, even more than Labour. Though at least they want to decriminalize the sex industry and treat animals decently. The site is very misleading when it comes to who is authoritarian and who isn`t. I don`t see how "authoritarian" comes into how you have a health service financed. Using that kind of odd yardstick the old USSR would have been less authoritarian than the USA.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30613.   Posted 10-Feb-2015 Tue 04:13]
  Nearly all UK political parties unsurprisingly classed as `authoritarian` rather than libertarian.

And given that Caroline Lucas called for the banning of the Sun and is generally a PC extremist on feminist issues, then I am not sure how the Green Party got away being classified on the libertarian side.


http://www.politicalcompass.org/uk2015

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30612.   Posted 10-Feb-2015 Tue 01:31]
  Thanks braintree

That seems to explain the loose ends, I will update the lists accordingly

braintree    [30611.   Posted 9-Feb-2015 Mon 14:48]
  It seems the uncut 15 rated version of Maze Runner is exclusively available on UK Bluray via the HMV Steelbook version which carries the 15 certificate. The cut 12 version is on all other UK releases. The US disc is uncut

phantom    [30610.   Posted 9-Feb-2015 Mon 14:31]
  Dave

While it is true that these days it appears that militancy is on the march everywhere (I shudder at what monsters our universities are creating right now), I do think it especially worrying when parliamentarians get ever more trigger happy.

Right now it is very hard to find any person who has actually got a say in the matter of making law, who seems the slightest bit interested in liberties and rights.

There seems to be no inclination by anyone to restrain the law, to stifle the march of the state.
No, the state is a universal good. Anything the state does is good by default.
Anyone who questions the state apparently sides with the terrorists, paedophiles and criminals.

Nobody in a position of power seems to have the slightest doubts whether intervention has any downsides.
Telling people what to do - more, what to think - now appears to be the very purpose for which the state was created.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30609.   Posted 9-Feb-2015 Mon 13:53]
  Phantom

I don`t think it`s true to limit your observation to politicians. It seems that half the world is trying to tell the other half what to think, say and do. And the other half doesn`t like it.

We seem to be engineering a very fractious world

phantom    [30608.   Posted 8-Feb-2015 Sun 19:25]
  Will not someone save us from these censorious morons?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31246808

Is there a single liberal minded politician left in the country?

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30607.   Posted 8-Feb-2015 Sun 14:33]
  I haven`t checked it out yet but this tweet amused me

"50 nuances de Grey interdit aux -12 ans en France! C`est la classification de Madame Doubtfire en Angleterre"

MichaelG    [30606.   Posted 8-Feb-2015 Sun 01:17]
  Re: American Sharia...

UK: Passed 12A uncut for racial stereotyping

Perhaps someone should point out to the BBFC that this would be religious stereotyping being that Muslim is not a race...

phantom    [30605.   Posted 6-Feb-2015 Fri 07:29]
  re: Applying BBFC rules to real life...

There we are. It`s happened. Once again.
Calls for censorship of the news on grounds of taste and morality.
Not that it`s not already the case that news broadcasters refuse to show us things which are `too graphic to broadcast`.
No, we need more cuts. (News vetted by the BBFC perhaps? Paid for of course.)

So let`s be clear, the news reports facts. (or at least it should do)
Terrorist violence is a fact. Imagery of terrorist violence is imagery of fact.
Andreas Whittam Smith believes it might be a good idea to withhold facts.

Some truths, it is best for us not to know.
It`s for our own good.

So where is the line, Mr Whittam Smith?

You deem the pilot`s execution off limits.
But what about the burning twin towers? Should we only be told that happened? But not shown?

Or what Abu Ghraib? That was in bad taste too, wasn`t it, Mr Whittam Smith? So best for us not to see that truth either.
Whole episodes of inconvenient truths could be disappeared.

A democracy depends heavily on its population being informed.
An uninformed populace can be led to vote for a Hitler.

And talking of Hitler, are the old pictures and films from the concentration camps also too tasteless for us to see?
All those emaciated bodies being bulldozed into pits?

Where do you cease to sanitise history?

The truth is, Mr Andreas Whittam Smith, you are a moralising, puritan moron; no doubt your chief qualification for being hired for the BBFC.

The truth has a value. It far outweighs any blether of taste and decency you might have picked up on some BBFC seminar.

I suggest you go live in North Korea. I`m told they have no nasty imagery on their news. You`d be happy there.

Bon voyage.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30604.   Posted 5-Feb-2015 Thu 17:07]
  phantom

And today we have ASA banning adult adverts for adult viewers watching children`s content, assuming that the adult must be watching with children.

phantom    [30603.   Posted 5-Feb-2015 Thu 04:52]
  re: A Bum Steer

I love that article.
So the means of advertising must have something to do with the product?
Thus a skimpily clad lady has nothing to do with steering wheels...

Ok, let`s test that theory.
What, pray, has an orangutan got to do with SSE Energy?
What has a meerkat got to do with a comparison site?
Er... What has the ITV Digital monkey got to do with PG Tips Tea?
Best of all, what has six-pack lawnmower man got to do with Diet Coke?
One could go on and on....

What is obvious is that the ASA statement doesn`t hold up to even the most perfunctory scrutiny.

The truth is selling steering wheels has to do with cars.
It was Sigmund Freud`s nephew, Edward Bernays (who invented modern PR), who famously used sex in adverts to sell cars.
Ever since Bernays used his uncle`s findings to appeal to the consumer`s subconscious in order to sell goods, products related to cars have been sold with sexual references.
One would think the ASA would know that....

This just seems to be another attempt at attacking `lads mags` culture. What are we to find hanging from the walls of car repair garages if not pics of page three girls and sexy adverts for car parts?
Do we really expect them to display posters of characters out of Jane Austen novels instead?
Or six pack diet coke men? :)

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30602.   Posted 4-Feb-2015 Wed 01:04]
  Indeed phantom.

And of course there is the Daily Mail and the likes to consider. They could have a field day given the opportunity to accuse the BBFC of being too liberal with a 15 rating.

phantom    [30601.   Posted 3-Feb-2015 Tue 16:05]
  I can see how one could think the distributor might argue for an 18 certificate for fear of it else being seen as too tame.

But given the BBFC`s record on fetish, I don`t think there`s a chance in hell of `Fifty Shades of Grey` being deemed anything but an 18.

`Secretary` and `The Notorious Betty Page` have nothing remarkable in them. Yet both are 18 certificates.
But what they share is a fetish theme.
So does `Fifty Shades of Grey`.

Fetish is the equivalent of a nun-chak to the BBFC.
They will simply not permit anything fetish, whether it contains any nudity or not, under 18.
Truth be told - fetish is the new gay.

It would have amounted to a miracle to see `Fifty Shades of Grey` awarded a lesser certificate than 18, given current BBFC policy.
It`s their bias, bigotry and prejudice that counts - and we all know what it is.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30600.   Posted 3-Feb-2015 Tue 15:27]
  Re Fifty Shades

Iceland has chipped in with a 16 rating whilst Ontario has joined the UK with an 18A rating.

So the majority so far have given the film less than an 18 rating. I guess the UK distributor asked for an 18, and the BBFC kindly obliged.

And as for the tangled mess that the publicity department has got in trying to sex it up...well I think we are rather expert at detecting double speak bullshit, we get it fed constantly by politicians and the like. I guess most movie goers will be waiting on the reviews.

phantom    [30599.   Posted 3-Feb-2015 Tue 08:04]
  Dave, was there really ever a chance of the BBFC awarding a 15 certificate?

I don`t think so.
See examples below. Both BBFC 18 certificates.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Secretary-DVD-James-Spader/dp/B000777UEK
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Notorious-Bettie-Page-DVD/dp/B000MX7YGI

I`m sorry, but I just don`t believe there was ever the faintest chance of `Shades of Grey` being anything other than an 18.

sergio    [30598.   Posted 3-Feb-2015 Tue 08:00]
  And as the flying puffters are seen gently smashing their brittle bodies after being thrown off a tall building we get this shit.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2937687/Tampons-nudity-half-sex-Fifty-Shades-Grey-fans-WON-T-new-film.html


So we have strong sex which isn`t explicit, or as Taylor-Johnson says `graphically explicit`. In the Mail on sunday of Feb 1 2014 page 19 she says `I didn`t want it to be graphically explicit, and I know that`s going to be disappointing to some people`.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2935163/Dornan-hopes-Grey-role-passable.html

We have an erotic film that isn`t erotic. An explicit film that isn`t explicit.

Whoosh - there goes another gay guy crashing down...

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30597.   Posted 2-Feb-2015 Mon 08:03]
  Fifty Shades of Grey gets an 18 rating.

I bet the distributors were relieved that it wasn`t a 15.

http://www.bbfc.co.uk/releases/fifty-shades-grey-2015?dm_i=QU2,35PDI,8X4Z3A,BBE0H,1

phantom    [30596.   Posted 31-Jan-2015 Sat 18:40]
  re: Judged too small a sample...

"This one case has left me in no doubt that the wearing of wigs in a professional capacity has a tremendous effect on an individual.
The judicial wigs available today are simply horrific and play a real part in the rotting of the brain."

Sorry. I just couldn`t resist.

But, if I understand correctly, this judge has himself seen this horrific imagery. As he attributes such power to this imagery, what is he planning to do about himself? Is he referring himself into custody?
Having seen these images he now - according to his own logic - represents a clear and present danger.

Frankly, I`m worried.
Why does this judge not do the honourable thing and section himself?
After all, he has seen those pictures.
We can`t have him turning into a psychotic killer at any moment.
This is intolerable.
Won`t someone think of the children?
The Lord Chief Justice must be incarcerated now. Immediately.
For all our sakes.

Therumbler    [30595.   Posted 31-Jan-2015 Sat 17:31]
  Did you know that http://www.melonfarmers.co.uk/ is blocked on Sky`s default filter?

https://www.blocked.org.uk/results?url=http://www.melonfarmers.co.uk/

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30594.   Posted 31-Jan-2015 Sat 17:22]
  Thanks Braintree, I`ll get it fixed tomorrow. The 2 version release has been confirmed by Michael Brooke, the producer.

braintree    [30593.   Posted 31-Jan-2015 Sat 14:42]
  I should point out that the story about the Arrow release Day of Anger may need correcting . According to the Arrow site an 86 minute and 114 minute version are included. The listing almost put me off buying the movie until I looked a bit more into it.They seem to be listed as the Italian Version and the International Version as your listing does but the main bit on the news page says "being released in a shortened version". The Arrow page is updated with the running times . I think the story should add those as the headline of the story is a bit misleading

phantom    [30592.   Posted 31-Jan-2015 Sat 05:13]
  freeworld {30591}

I definitely agree with you that much of feminist rhetoric in fact dis-empowering women.
Every woman is cast the victim.

Fear is used as a powerful weapon. Rapists are everywhere. It`s a world of predators. Ludicrous statistics suggest one in four women are subject to sexual violence. Tens of thousands of women are trafficked and forced into sexual slavery in this country alone.

Moreover, women are not to make their own decisions as many will make the `wrong` choices, because they`re brainwashed by the patriarchy.
Their competency and right to consent is taken by the lawmakers, considered merely `notional consent`, not the real consent of the kind a man would give.

So yes, I see recent notions championed by militant feminists - and accepted by the political class - as detrimental to women - and to feminism itself.

To this day I say that the mainstay of feminism ought to be mundane tasks like making sure that dinner ladies and cleaning ladies get the equivalent rates of pay. But those sort of battles have simply been seconded to the unions. Those subjects are not sufficiently controversial to get lots of media attention.
When have you last heard Harriet Harman or Dianne Abbot stand up for equal pay for working class women?
In truth I cannot remember ever hearing them mention the subject.

freeworld    [30591.   Posted 31-Jan-2015 Sat 04:12]
  phantom {30589. Posted 29-Jan-2015 Thu 18:18}

Also, Saunders is apparently saying if someone was an employer etc of that "victim" it could be, well, very very difficult to say no to them when it comes to sex ( but apparently not so hard to later go to the police and report that individual for rape!).Until it`s understood that the ideological misandrist "hate" wing of "feminism" regards ALL sexual activity between male and female as rape, and they are trying to criminalize potentially as many circumstances as they can by shrieking to an (always open to pandering to noisy minority pressure groups) political class, you can`t properly appreciate what is going on here.

Of course, this doesn`t just demonize men, it turns women not into the mature, empowered individuals real feminism should be concerned with, but into helpless perpetual victims, not in control of themselves, but of irresistible external influences - males you just can`t say no to, despite there being no overt threat; alcohol, which apparently can render women into states where they are legally not responsible for what they are doing, whereas a man is invariably completely responsible for his actions, criminally responsible (even if he`s as drunk as the woman). All patronizing and irrational, but it`s this that May (an even greater disaster in the home office than Straw and Blunkett) is seeking to enshrine, not just in guidelines for the police, but in criminal law itself, with the new offence she wants to create of "emotional abuse" by adults to other adult (a proposed law that Mail on line commenters overwhelmingly disagreed with, but another triumph for the pressure group extremists).

If you look at the many comments on the Mail on line article, 99% take the opposite view to the line being peddled - they can see quite well the dangerous scenarios for defining "rape" which are being constructed by a political class which always panders to noisy extremists these days. As the government seemingly listens closely to Mumsnet opinions, you can bet its been heavily infiltrated by the unrepresentative misandrist hate groups for that very reason.

phantom    [30590.   Posted 30-Jan-2015 Fri 09:07]
  Here`s another twist on censorship.
Taylor Swift now claims to own bits of the Oxford English Dictionary, I guess.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-31053821

If that`s the game we`re now playing, I`d like to trademark the words `The`, `And` and `Hello`.

phantom    [30589.   Posted 29-Jan-2015 Thu 18:18]
  freeworld [30588]

Well, first off some of the Daily Mail verbiage is shockingly wrong.

"Date rape suspects will now need to prove that a woman consented as part of tough new rules on the way sex offence cases are investigated."

That part is just plainly inept reporting. Providing such `proof` would in fact be impossible. It isn`t what the changes contain.

"....Alison Saunders, said she wanted police to ask suspects how they knew the alleged victim was saying yes, and was doing so `freely and knowingly."

It is the above part which is actually the true change being proposed.
But I agree, it sounds dubious.

"The rules also aims to stop suspects using social media to construct ‘false narratives’ to help cover their tracks."

That part sounds highly controversial to me. If you were accused of rape by a person, would it really be unreasonable of you to see what that person is stating they actually did in facebook, etc?

To my mind, the rise in rape claims means
a) either more men are raping
b) more women are making false allegations

However, to suggest b) is "sexist, detrimental to justice", yadda yadda... "Jimmy Savile" yadda yadda...
Thus, it must be a). Not because we know it to be. But because it must be. Because certain circles want it to be.

And because those circles have votes...

This coming election is going to see a great chase for the female vote. (Or better for particular sections of the female vote)
The pollsters have been predicting this for some time now.

I`m afraid this is part of this game.
(Btw, tightening up on internet porn was also just to placate the mumsnet crowd - 6 months before a general election. Thus exactly the same thing.)

freeworld    [30588.   Posted 29-Jan-2015 Thu 16:12]
  Gruesome Alison Saunders of the CPS has brilliantly devised a wizard way of boosting the rape figures - ie to get unsafe, dubious allegations treated seriously to up the stats. Next gerrymandering court evidence to stack the deck against the defendant - when juries still aren`t convicting enough, well, they`ll just get rid of the juries. After all, we lost centuries of double jeopardy protection, the right to silence protection, have secret courts; the scrapping of trial by jury has already got a precedent, nailed in by New Labour. I suppose Cameron wants to preside over a government in which rape crime "seems" (it actually isn`t) to be "exploding". The stupidity/evil of the Triad political class never ceases to amaze.
The odious Saunders preaching to the choir is uncritically (natch!) reported by the Mail today.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2930819/CPS-launches-crackdown-rapist-pray-drunk-women-Tightened-laws-stop-suspects-using-social-media-help-cover-tracks.html?

phantom    [30587.   Posted 29-Jan-2015 Thu 08:02]
  re: Sabreman64 [30586]
I wonder whether Stephen Glover has got any sort of rational explanation regarding how it is possible that sexual offences numbers have been falling for years now despite this `vile porn` being everywhere `to poison men`s minds`.

Sabreman64    [30586.   Posted 29-Jan-2015 Thu 05:35]
  Daily Mail columnist rants about porn warping men`s minds:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2930751/STEPHEN-GLOVER-Left-obsesses-Page-3-girls-ignores-depravity-internet-porn.html

phantom    [30585.   Posted 28-Jan-2015 Wed 05:38]
  In that case.

I also don`t believe in censorship....
...BUT...
I think books like these ought to be banned.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Third-Way-New-Politics-Century/dp/0716305887

"There would be many who would argue" that banning these books would prevent future warmongering, protect Magna Carta and prevent the imposition of arbitrary bans and prohibitions.

Not that I`m saying this material should be banned, of course.
But I`m saying we should have a national debate... and then ban it.

Then again, I bet Thomas Docherty MP would not agree with the above.
Why? Well, see the link below.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1341560/Tories-slam-preposterous-plan-statue-Tony-Blair.html

Ironically, in that mock picture, the statue is almost performing the Nazi salute.... How fitting. :)

goatboy    [30584.   Posted 27-Jan-2015 Tue 21:03]
  LOL at wanting Mein Kampf banned. It`s not exactly political pornography, the introduction on one of the editions of it points out it`s "lengthy, dull, bombastic, repetitious and extremely badly written". They`re not wrong.

Therumbler    [30583.   Posted 27-Jan-2015 Tue 17:28]
  I see the Daily Mail`s off on one again.

And this is another pearl of wisdom from our leaders:http://order-order.com/2015/01/27/fmr-def-sec-isis-gains-entirely-due-to-whatsapp-or-snapchat/

phantom    [30582.   Posted 26-Jan-2015 Mon 14:11]
  re: Lest it `offends` the terrorists...

What a very strange article.
The BBC seems to be suggesting that they are very careful and considerate when using the term `terrorist`.
But I know them to be quite fast and loose with the term in some respects.

Not to call the acts in Paris `terrorist` is plainly ridiculous.
It begs the question, if those acts were not, then what is?

But take the BBC`s reporting on ISIS/ISIL in Syria and `terrorism` is used frequently and indiscriminately. Such use is highly questionable, but - given the arrests of people returning from Syria - that use appears government sanctioned.

With the BBC being so keen to designate ISIS a terror organisation, it makes their refusal to dub the Paris attackers, - a much more clear cut case, - all the more extraordinary.

Gunning down journalists and Jews in a metropolis, just for the hell of it, seems to me the epitome of terrorism.
Taking part in a civil war on the other hand, does not.

This bizarre bias on part of the BBC seems to suggest that one is trying to please some political master.

This in turn makes their insistence on being particularly careful in their use of the term `terrorist` all the more strange.

sergio    [30581.   Posted 25-Jan-2015 Sun 07:35]
  [30580]
A bit of playful deconstruction, form and content play.

phantom    [30580.   Posted 25-Jan-2015 Sun 04:29]
  I`m sorry, but why call them *****?
Why not ISIS or ISIL?
Why be afraid of an abbreviation?

sergio    [30579.   Posted 25-Jan-2015 Sun 03:52]
  Censored because of proper gander (quack, quack)? The BBC seems to be a strange biz. Ripping other media off lawfully. Last night the Beeb, on the News Channel in the `The Papers` section at 10:30pm seemed to redact/censor an image of a Japanese prisoner held by ***** . I thought the worst when I saw the headline (no pun intended) next to the blank space. It said `Beheading...`. Ouch, I thought, are they showing the dead and lifeless body of a decapitated man? No, according to Sky News who didn`t redact/censor the image it was an image of a Japanese prisoner showing a caption or something (the beheading refered to the other prisoner, who yet to be confirmed dead). Martine Croxall had some sort of explanation that I didn`t understand. The Beeb were being sensitive or something or not trying to publish ***** propaganda. The less sensitive Sky news seemed to have no problem. If they want to stop ***** propaganda then maybe they should stop showing anything from *****.

---
Pray tell who categorised `fellatio` as an `extreme sex act`? Maybe in a muslim country a man looking at another man`s eyes is an `extreme sex act`.

sergio    [30578.   Posted 22-Jan-2015 Thu 16:28]
  Might be off topic but seems like this documentary
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b050cvdd/surviving-the-holocaust-freddie-knollers-war

used some Harrison Marks footage of Lorraine Burnette - http://www.npl-york.co.uk/lorraineburnette.html
Doco image cap
http://s23.postimg.org/avtgyw1p7/snap2022.png

at about 25mins in
Harrison Marks films start about 1958 - 2nd world war about 1939 to 1945.

freeworld    [30577.   Posted 22-Jan-2015 Thu 09:32]
  Well it does look as if the Sun wasn`t caving in to the screechers after all - I`m no fan of the paper, but good on `em for having a laugh at the expense of the righteous. This might even be a (sadly rare) example of a push back against the gaggle of canting miserablists.

Sabreman64 [30575. Posted 22-Jan-2015 Thu 02:43]
I really doubt plain packs figures much in the scheme of things as a potent electoral issue. It`s irrelevant anyway, if you support any of the "Triad", for not one of those "different parties" (well, the three headed hydra) will commit against compulsory plain packs - all of them favour it (in the case of the Tories many of their MPs don`t, but the leadership does, which is what matters). Say hello again to the good old cigarette case - to be decorated how people want them! I feel like starting smoking again just so I can get a case emblazened with colourful pictures of hotties - drive the think of the children "normalization" brigade into spasms of righteous fury.

For ages Labour have been assaulting the Tories about them being tardy over introducing plain packs for cigarettes. There is no chance Edweird Minibrain will oppose this - he is, as they say, "gagging (or should it be gasping in this case?) for it! Labour passed the comprehensive smoking ban, which did little to endear them to many of their traditional supporters, forced to go outside and shudder with cold or get drenched if they wanted a fag. Labour also brought in the ludicrous "hide all cig packets in shops" law. And Labour have pledged to introduce plain packs. As a party they are far more committed on it than the Tory rank and file MPs are - as opposed to the dept of health and its current ministers (when the pro plain packs minister brought it up last time in parliament she was barracked - but only by MPs from her own Tory party).

On the comprehensive public places ban and display ban, the Tories voted against these policies in opposition. In government they kept them - though on the display ban they provided an exemption for non supermarket retailers until this year (retailers had argued that the cost of altering their shelves etc would be too great for them, businesses were struggling with a flat economy at the time).

If you`ve seen the Labour policies on health announced very recently - plain packs and all, it`s a nanny`s charter. But essentially this government is little different in power when it comes to banning, regulating, censoring, nagging and creating rotten/nanny state laws and regulations.

"We rage that, as we go about our business, we are picked and poked and bossed around, annoyed and irritated and endlessly harassed by public and private sector officialdom that treats us like children with rules and regulations and directives and laws that no one voted for, no one supports, but no one ever seems to be able to do the slightest thing about.”

- David Cameron, arch hypocrite, when in opposition.

For all it matters what I think in the scheme of things, the reduction of sugar in foods policy is a sound one (though it is there in excess because the "experts" and the orthodoxy pandering politicians blamed fat wrongly for health problems in the past - and it was replaced by lots of sugar - hence the obesity problems now) - unlike a lot of other rubbish. Though they made an attempt at sugar reduction during their last time in power, Labour bottled it when the food industry told them in no uncertain terms where to go.

phantom    [30576.   Posted 22-Jan-2015 Thu 07:19]
  Yes, it is rather ludicrous that there appears to be the belief that folks smoke, because the packages look nice. It once more is a faith.
A faith that there are vulnerable people out there there who can be led astray simply with brightly coloured cardboard.
Oh, not you or I, of course. But others. Vulnerable people.

It is a faith which is everywhere these days.
We all know it originated in the anti porn movement.
But now we even find it in ideas about combatting islamist radicalisation.
As with all dogma, it sooner or later spreads into every nook and cranny.

The irony course is that the government approach aims to be offensive. Yes, think about it.
`We`ll plaster the packets in ghastly, hideous pictures,` goes the mantra.
Yes, offensive pictures, say I.

So in an age when causing offence is the greatest crime, offensive pictures on cigarette packets are ok.
I can but chuckle.

I understand the desire to stop people smoking.
But I do not think this is the way to do it. Who knows, it might be effective, although I doubt it.
However, things need not only be effective, they need to be right in principle.
Telling manufacturers of a legal product that they need to make it look ugly and repulsive is highly questionable to me - in principle.

And I`m speaking as someone who has never smoked a cigarette in his life. So I hardly have a reason to be biased.

But who knows, maybe there is an answer here.
I may be willing to agree to this in principle, if it also applies to political advertisements.

So the next posters to go up advertising Labour and the Conservatives; if 75% of the available area is covered by photographic depictions of gum disease or genital warts and only 25% is left - in plain grey, of course - to contain the party political message; then I might come round to this idea.

After all, there are many vulnerable people out there.
It`s important not to corrupt them. ;)

Sabreman64    [30575.   Posted 22-Jan-2015 Thu 02:43]
  The health fascists are to ban branded cigarette packaging. Once they`ve finished with tobacco, they`ll go after chocolate, sweets, chocolate and fizzy drinks. After all, "sugar is the new tobacco". So don`t be surprised to see legislation brought in some time in the next decade or so banning branded packaging of sugary foods.

There is one reason, and one reason alone that the idiot Cameron is having this vote on cigarette packaging before the election. It`s one of his last hopes of winning the election. A victory here will boost his election chances. If Miliband and Labour had any sense (which they haven`t), they would oppose this, and deny Cameron a victory in the run up to the election.

Miliband and his fellow Labour morons are so stupid they don`t deserve to win power. They`re going to end up giving us another five years of Cameron and his Tory fools.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30574.   Posted 22-Jan-2015 Thu 02:23]
  Freeworld

Well it seems the Sun is having a little fun. It will be interesting to see how the PC world responds to the return of Page 3

freeworld    [30572.   Posted 20-Jan-2015 Tue 09:07]
  Melonfarmers(or someone)needs to start an on line petition "Bring back page 3" - and we need to try to get more signatures than the screeching minority of prigs did - blow theirs out of the water.

As Phantom has pointed out, they won`t stop here, the self righteous, sanctimonious banstibastors just gain strength from every little victory like this. They are an unrepresentative minority attempting to dictate by bullying what everyone else can do, see, buy etc. The Guardian comments on this story are a good indicator of the terrifying, fanatical mindset of these obsessive nutters.

I blame the infection of this pathetic but totalitarian ideology to a large extent on the politicians with their idiotic mania over getting half of the population of young people into higher education - where naive young minds are brainwashed with the poisonous guff of "victim" culture.

sergio    [30571.   Posted 20-Jan-2015 Tue 08:47]
  Je Suis Page3

http://imgbox.com/0YGFVPjk

phantom    [30570.   Posted 20-Jan-2015 Tue 06:59]
  Brilliant link Sergio.

The Sun`s Page 3 was a bastion. Something for the demagogues and naysayers to rail against. As long as it held, other subjects were safe.
The fall of Page 3, the Sun`s page 3 that is, is thus a serious matter.

The enemy hordes will not rest a moment, but charge onward, at whatever feeble defences can be erected at other points.

Personally, I have never understood the point of topless girls in newspapers. But the libertarian principle behind it was an important one.
It needn`t make sense. Whether logical, necessary or not, the point was simply, why should there not be pictures of topless girls in a newspaper? What right would anyone have to deny it?

And the fact that politicians feared the press barons was equally important. If the press is now moving away from a defence of page 3, it means that zealous politicians will no longer need to fear the press when waging war on nipples.

The victory will now no doubt further strengthen the claims that:
a) nudity demeans and objectifies women,
b) sight of nudity causes harm.
For it is clear that campaigners will insist that the press are backing down, because they have come to accept their arguments.

The truth of course is that no rational argument has ever been made to substantiate their claims. Making these claims noisily doesn`t make them right.

As someone who has known various page 3 girls over time, I know for sure that they were neither exploited, nor oppressed. Moreover, their page 3 appearances, if anything, were a source of pride.
And they disliked having it rubbished.

But yes, Singapore has fallen, gentlemen.
I shudder at what may happen next...

sergio    [30569.   Posted 20-Jan-2015 Tue 03:20]
  Je suis Page3

http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9376232/free-speech-is-so-last-century-todays-students-want-the-right-to-be-comfortable/

I don`t think we have enough tits in the world.

Sabreman64    [30568.   Posted 20-Jan-2015 Tue 02:55]
  So the spineless Sun have caved in to the miserable killjoy feminazis.

Phantom, I presume these modern day Mary Whitehouses will now focus their attention on any remaining tabloids carrying topless pictures of models. Do the Daily Star or Sunday Sport print such pictures? (I see from Wikipedia that the Daily Sport no longer has a print version.)

They`ll probably also set their sights on lads` and top shelf mags (the likes of Zoo, Razzle, Mayfair etc). These killjoys aren`t likely to stop at the Sun`s Page 3, are they?

phantom    [30567.   Posted 19-Jan-2015 Mon 17:11]
  Newsnight tonight (19/1/15) postulated the same thing: The Sun`s Page 3 most likely dead.

So yes, no doubt all the feminist campaigners will now stop and go home, right? They wouldn`t just move on to demanding something else, would they? Surely, not...

Therumbler    [30566.   Posted 19-Jan-2015 Mon 17:05]
  According to the Times Page 3 is finished in the Sun.

phantom    [30565.   Posted 18-Jan-2015 Sun 15:21]
  The great leader speaks!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30873150

David `Mandela` Cameron announces that it is perfectly ok, in a free society, to offend someone - as long as it`s within the law.
It`s apparently not his job to tell people what to publish or what not to publish. His job is merely to uphold the law.

He seems to forget - temporarily - that, as prime minister, he is the man who proposes law and then uses his party`s whip`s office to see it passed by parliament. So by passing law he is very much the man who tells people what they cannot publish.
It must have slipped his mind...

The hypocrisy brought on by the whole `Charlie Hebdo` affair is limitless, it appears.
Everyone is keen to be seen defending `western values`. This despite just about every politician in the land being engaged in the continual dismantling of western freedoms of expression.

So David `call me ATVOD` Cameron is here actually purporting that he is not a censorious type, claiming in a free society we have a right to cause offence.
But he further claims that there is no right to wreak vengeance as a result of offence.

I wonder whether all those British citizens arrested, prosecuted and jailed for viewing offensive material, or for having said something offensive on his watch will agree with his being quite so free spirited.
Some might say he is very much the man who likes exacting vengeance on those who do something to offend - by sticking them behind bars.

Saying that your job is only to see that people publish things within the law is incredibly two-faced, when you are clearly engaged in tightening the law to such an extent that the pips aren`t squeaking, - they`re bloody screaming by now.

For the latest champion for the banning of bad ideas to drape himself in the mantle of free expression is quite sickening.

I can only assume that integrity and truthfulness are not values which Eton tries to impart onto its pupils these days.

phantom    [30564.   Posted 18-Jan-2015 Sun 07:33]
  What? :)

sergio    [30563.   Posted 18-Jan-2015 Sun 03:46]
  If someone cussed my mother would I punch them or machine gun them? It depends.

sergio    [30562.   Posted 17-Jan-2015 Sat 14:42]
  Does Miley Cyrus produce kinder pornographie on instagram?

goatboy    [30561.   Posted 15-Jan-2015 Thu 19:50]
  Would assume 50 shades will be an 18 regardless of whatever content is in it. It`s presumably the rating the distributor would want, and I can`t see the bbfc being arsed with the shit storm there would be in the press if they gave it a 15.

phantom    [30560.   Posted 13-Jan-2015 Tue 17:45]
  re: Fetish Theme...

I don`t think the 18 rating of the Duke of Burgundy has anything to do with preparing the ground for the 50 Shades of Grey movie.
Far more it is perfectly in-keeping with the BBFC`s bias toward all things fetish and BDSM.
Let`s not forget `the Notorious Bettie Page` which also received an 18 certificate. Something which is almost impossible to explain, given the film itself.
But the BBFC hate fetish.
They are effectively at war with it.
They are not alone. The government are right behind them.
Let`s not forget at whom the DPA was mainly targeted.

The BBFC`s war on fetish stems from an irrational bias which can only be compared to the nun-chak ban some years ago.
It is not based on any sound reasoning whatsoever, but instead is derived purely from personal dislike and hostile dogma.

As long as we have censors we will have the banning of concepts and ideas purely on the basis of personal beliefs and bias.

The only hope we have is to one day rid ourselves of the censors.
As for the BBFC, they are beyond reform.

phantom    [30559.   Posted 13-Jan-2015 Tue 09:24]
  sergio [30558]
Sounds as though they`ve caved in.
I for one, sent a complaint. I`m sure others will have too.
In my complaint I pointed out that other news platforms were showing the picture; that the Beeb was displaying editorial cowardice.

All through the evening and night of 12/1/15 they were describing in words what was on the front page, but refusing to show it.
If there was any lesson from Paris it was not to bow to the fear of offence. And here they were reporting on Paris, but missing the central point the story was about; namely for the west to stick to its values.

I can`t help but wonder how many folks complained.
I suspect they were embarrassed into giving in.

sergio    [30558.   Posted 13-Jan-2015 Tue 06:55]
  13 jan 2014 - BBC1 1pm with Sophie Rayworth news had film of the cover of Charlie Hebdo with `Muhammad wearing a “Je suis Charlie” badge` - actually looks like he is holding up a sign - mighty big badge.


http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/jan/13/charlie-hebdo-cover-magazine-prophet-muhammad

phantom    [30557.   Posted 12-Jan-2015 Mon 21:20]
  What is missing in this BBC article?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30790409

On Newsnight Evan Davies almost showed it to the camera, but clearly was instructed by the little voice in his ear, not to.

So, the BBC remain as ball-less as ever.

braintree    [30556.   Posted 10-Jan-2015 Sat 14:45]
  The neanderthal morons who did the killing in Paris apparently wanted to die as martyrs. How ironic then that history will remember them as needing a gun , running scared and eventually dying because they were scared of cartoons.
All religions can be and have been ridiculed . The strongest ones move on and ignore satirical / comedic comments. The weakest ones for which many of its followers clearly show they have no confidence in it come out literally guns blazing because they know their "cause" is bollocks.
The only good Jihadist is a dead one . And none are brave unless they are holding a gun or a bomb - pussies.

phantom    [30555.   Posted 10-Jan-2015 Sat 13:17]
  Мария [30554]

So just to get this straight?
The cartoonists at `Charlie Hebdo` spat in your mother`s face in front of you? They then posted nude pictures of your sister on the net? And finished by defecating on your grandfather`s medals?

Because this seems to be what your point is suggesting.
The problem is, I don`t believe they ever did that to you.

I think you`re just a nasty little man who has issues with some of the things Charlie Hebdo printed in their magazine.
And now you like the fact that they`re gone.
Because now they won`t be doing things anymore of which you disapprove.
So yes, no problem someone shot the court jester, ey?

Human society evolves. Yes, it`s an evolution. The ascent of man is not only from the ape to his current shape, but so too from the cave dweller to the modern citizen of the world.
However, some of us are less evolved than others. Some just see those who have striven on ahead as decadent and depraved, simply because they cannot understand.

They are the Neanderthals of the human family, railing in anger at man`s progress which is leaving them ever further behind.

There are atrocities and injustices everywhere in the world.
But some are of symbolic value.

The abuse of the prisoners in Abu Ghraib for instance was such a moment. Not because their lives were any more valuable than those of children maimed in Syria, but because their plight became symbolic for all that was wrong with the war in Iraq.
They were thus not mere victims, but symbols.

In that same way the shooting of a group of unarmed men, who simply made a living by drawing and writing has become such a symbol.
These men were not collateral damage in a war. They were not the unintended targets of a greater struggle in Ukraine, Syria or Gaza.
No, they were deliberately sought out and killed.
Because they dared to make people laugh.

Two men, who claimed to believe in Allah being the most powerful force in the entire universe, capable of exploding stars, even galaxies, in the blink of an eye, thought their almighty deity needed protecting from drawings in `Charlie Hebdo`.
Two idiots killed cartoonists for not believing in things the way they did.

Мария    [30554.   Posted 10-Jan-2015 Sat 11:53]
  Did someone ever spit into you mother`s face in front of you? Posted nude pictures of your sister on the internet? Took a shit on your grandfather`s medals? Charlie Hebdo "journalists" did all that professionaly for years. They even got paid. Therefore today I am – Syrian; I am – Odessite burned alive in Trade Unions House; I am – Palestinian boy suffocating beneath ruins of my own house in Gaza; I am – five years old Arseny, torn to pieces by mortar shell launched by Ukrainian army in Slavyansk. Last thing I`ve seen before I went blind – my mother dying to let me live for six more hours; I am – cab driver, mechanic, miner, factory worker from Donetsk protecting my family from Ukrainian neonazis invasion; I am – tortured Guantanamo adbuctee. No lawyer, no trial – my relatives don`t even know I`m still alive; I am – Cuban rotting away in secret CIA prison in a random country. Maybe it is even yours, I do not know; I am – teenager killed by USA cop without warning, because cop "felt threatened"; I am – one of the innocent French policemen killed on 7th of January. But I am NOT your fucking Charlie! Not today, not ever

phantom    [30553.   Posted 9-Jan-2015 Fri 21:40]
  Dave

What really rattles my cage with the Charlie Hebdo saga from a UK perspective is the staggering level of hypocrisy.
Every politician over here is declaring that he or she is standing `shoulder to shoulder` with Charlie Hebdo.
All of them are saying that the freedom, as symbolised by Charlie Hebdo, is key to our western values and democracy.
But the truth is Charlie Hebdo would be a banned publication here.
Let`s face it, of how many laws would it run foul, with its satirical, attacking style? In comparison Private Eye is rather Charlie`s neutered British cousin.
There would be an orgy of litigations and prosecutions against Charlie Hebdo in this country. Not least for `inciting hatred`.
In a country where police enter shops to tell patrons to remove gollywogs from the display, what chance for Charlie Hebdo?
So to me, it`s extremely annoying to have to listen to these UK political hypocrites on how keen they supposedly are to defend such liberties - for the French!

But I did chuckle when I saw your update on `Stand up for free speech`.
It was when I saw the Charlie front page `Il faut voiler Charlie Hebdo!`. It translates as `Charlie Hebdo should be veiled!`

Does that sound vaguely familiar? Remember various publications being sold in opaque sleeves in supermarkets and newsagents? Remember certain folks demanding the practice be spread?
Strange how unwittingly relevant a French mag can be...

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30552.   Posted 9-Jan-2015 Fri 16:53]
  Phantom

Indeed the world needs to pinch itself and wake up. Today was quite surreal with more or less everyone voicing an opinion on issues to do with Charlie Hebdo being totally fractious, intolerant and somehow expecting or demanding everyone else to think as they do.

And like you say, its not just the big things, but the trivial too.

phantom    [30551.   Posted 9-Jan-2015 Fri 09:35]
  Someone pinch me, please. I want to wake up.

So Gordon Taylor made the `wrong` simile and now needs to apologise for it?
(and has already done so, effectively conceding that the attack on him was correct?)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30749036

What can any public figure actually say anymore that will not cause `offence`?
It was self-evident what point Gordon Taylor was trying to make.
The outrage relates to a completely unrelated point.
But it means that the original point can be readily ignored.
At least this seems to be the conclusion.

Whether one actually agrees with Taylor or not is really irrelevant.
What matters is that he`s effectively been silenced (more; forced to apologise, in order to save his neck) after being hit by an outrage avalanche.

It is absolutely clear that no offence regards Hillsboro was intended. It actually takes a great deal of conscious effort to be offended here.
Apparently, what he says implies something. This implication is offensive.

Once again, pinch me, someone. Please.

phantom    [30550.   Posted 7-Jan-2015 Wed 17:40]
  Yes, but will any of the `great statesmen` who have been waxing lyrical about the Paris shooting, have the balls to stand up and hold a speech about that girl`s right to be in porn without being shot?
Nope. I doubt we`ll be hearing from President Hollande on that subject.

Porn somehow is not free speech. Cartoons are. Go figure.

And as for the feminists? Well, they`ll no doubt use one particular line, which they otherwise decry.
`She asked for it.`

Therumbler    [30549.   Posted 7-Jan-2015 Wed 17:08]
  Pornhub star Mia Khalifa receives death threats after being ranked site`s top adult actress

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/pornhub-star-mia-khalifa-receives-death-threats-after-being-ranked-sites-number-one-adult-actress-9962293.html

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30548.   Posted 7-Jan-2015 Wed 14:46]
  What`s the betting that David Cameron`s `free speech and democracy` state machinery will lay into the first tweeter who dares make a joke about the murders?

phantom    [30547.   Posted 7-Jan-2015 Wed 12:44]
  I guess today we saw another demonstration of the spirit of the age.
Three Islamist nut jobs stormed into the office of a humorous French magazine and shot twelve people.

Apparently, the great and mighty Allah, creator of the universe and all living things, needed protecting from a French magazine...

Irony, it seems, is not part of the Islamist curriculum.

That said, David Cameron - national censor and imprisoner in chief - immediately sprung into statesman mode during prime minister`s question time.
`...and we stand squarely for free speech and democracy and these people will never be able to take us off those values.`
Clearly, irony didn`t feature much at Eton either.

Harriet Harman, the nation`s foremost demander of the silencing of others, not wanting to be left out, has also pronounced these attacks `a fundamental challenge to western values`.
So it seems the St Paul`s Girl`s School is also not a place where irony is taught.

One struggles really to comprehend on what level Cameron and Harman disagree with the terrorists.
Sure, they appear not to agree with the terrorists` methods of killing people outright.

But according to their statements there ought to be a great chasm in libertarian principle between these two politicos and the terrorists.

However, I just can`t make it out.
Harman with her `western values` wishes to silence those people who are `wrong` just as much as the men in balaclavas do.
And Cameron with his `free speech and democracy` is hardly known as a great champion of civil liberties and free speech. I mean, just mention the human rights act to him and watch the steam coming from his ears.
that`s before we even touch on internet filters, etc.

Both also have no problem with imprisoning people without trial or non-public trials. Both also have voiced no opposition to punishing people for saying the wrong thing, on race, religion or homosexuality.

So yes, the terrorists committed murder. I get it.

But for the pontificating on free speech and western values to hold water, surely our political elite ought to hold some actual difference with the goals of the terrorists?

From where I`m standing, they in fact seem to share the key motivation of those gunmen; namely the desire and inclination to silence those with whom they disagree.

sergio    [30546.   Posted 4-Jan-2015 Sun 09:14]
  Sorry, what was the age of consent again?
So in the UK it seems to be 16, in New York it seems to be 17.

phantom    [30545.   Posted 30-Dec-2014 Tue 07:46]
  sergio {30544}

Well, the author is right insofar that regulation and prohibition by law are two separate things. And yes, all industry tends to be regulated.
That said, there is an overlap between regulation and prohibitive law.
After all, regulation may prohibit things.

What is exceptional here however, is that regulation is not about how many hours it is safe to work, or under what weather conditions certain things are prohibited.

No, the industry regulation he is speaking of here is that of free expression. Is expression still `free` if it is regulated?
This is a question not merely the pornsters are asking. The press have also been posing this question ever since the Leveson inquiry.
(albeit it is worth pointing out that porn has never had its Leveson inquiry)

My appropriate argument would be that which I use with the BBFC. Regulation of free expression is not censorship - as long as it permits free expression.
As we know, the BBFC does not permit free expression.
It still insists on refusing certificates.

The ATVOD regulation is based on BBFC guidelines. This means that material is not merely regulated. True, much of it is regulated, but over all hangs the threat of outright prohibition.

As long as the `regulators` maintain the right to ban, then they are in fact censors. After all, only permitted material is `regulated`.
Were they regulators, then their role would be to regulate all material; not merely that which they permit.

So I tend to disagree with the author. I think we are seeing censorship.

Further, there is the issue of who bears the cost of this `regulation`.
Given that the regulation is not utilitarian in its principles, but entirely faith based, it is somewhat unfair to lay its cost upon those who are non-believers.
The censorship regime is effectively being introduced entirely due to the beliefs in harm, etc by certain groups in society.
But it is not they who are being asked to bear the costs of those beliefs.

The standard reasoning for industry paying for regulatory costs is well accepted. But that is due to an evidence based approach. There is a reason why we have health and safety regulation in nuclear power plants and it seems feasible that it should be the industry which bears the cost of it.
Power plants are dangerous. Nuclear plants represent a potential hazard to the health of the entire nation. Not because we believe it to be so, but because science tells us so.

Porn is now increasingly regulated as though it were radioactive. But so far, all we have is belief.
To demand one group to pay for the beliefs of the other is a steep ask.

But then why shouldn`t the Conservative Party donours pay some of the costs of the Labour Party and vice versa? Perhaps then they might see the error of their ways.

sergio    [30544.   Posted 30-Dec-2014 Tue 02:43]
  `"It is my view that it is not censorship to say, “we don’t want children to see that so here is a set of rules, rules that the adult industry can shape and inform if they wake up to what is happening, to help prevent access to minors.” Censorship to me is to say, “I don’t like topless women with my corn flakes and don’t ever want to educate my children about their and other peoples’ bodies so I want it banned for everyone.”`

compare: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship

I think parents should censor their children. Maybe censoring those less `mature` and vulnerable humans isn`t censorship because they have no power. Anything a parent does to a child is just `child minding`?

But doesn`t everyone self-censor to a certain degree?

phantom    [30543.   Posted 24-Dec-2014 Wed 08:21]
  Hmm...

So, what`s to look forward to living in western liberal Britain in 2015.

Look at wrong picture. Result: arrest. (DPA, to be extended to include `rape porn`)
Tell wrong joke. Result: arrest. (communications act)
Have argument with partner. Result: arrest. (new offence of `coercive and controlling behaviour`)
Smoke in your car. Result: a fine. (children and families act)

Do you feel free yet? :)

Rex Borsky    [30542.   Posted 23-Dec-2014 Tue 10:52]
  Man investigated over `offensive` tweet re the Glasgow tragedy.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/12/23/glasgow-crash-tweet_n_6371428.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

I thought the parametres around so-called `offence` had been loosened. If the above is true - and it`s not just silly season - then I really do dispair for the U.K.

Either way, the culture of taking offence has already embedded, I mean the guy even handed himself in at the police station for Christ`s sake (whoops, if I offended anybody - go fuck yourself).

braintree    [30541.   Posted 22-Dec-2014 Mon 14:22]
  Apparently the current Nordic releases include the uncut Die Hard 4 too

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30540.   Posted 21-Dec-2014 Sun 05:20]
  Thanks Braintree

I will pass on the comment

braintree    [30539.   Posted 20-Dec-2014 Sat 14:15]
  The latest edition of Cutting Edge claims there is no Bluray release of the unrated Die Hard 4 . This is incorrect . The Australian boxset of the Die Hard Legacy Collection includes a Bluray disc with both the PG13 and unrated editions with the choice to watch either version from the main menu . This boxset seems to be exclusive to JB Hi-Fi but has been available since 2013 . The uncut Bluray of Die Hard 4 does not appear to be available to buy individually. The packaging is almost identical to the UK boxset but with both Die Hard 4 and 5 the slipcase mentions the harder cuts although the cover on the current listing misses off "harder edition" for Die Hard 5 . I purchased this release a few weeks ago so can confirm its existence. As with most other releases some of the copious bonus features from some of the older 2 disc dvd editions of the films are absent again. https://www.jbhifi.com.au/movies-tv-shows/movies-tv-shows-on-sale/action/die-hard-the-complete-collection/494584/

phantom    [30538.   Posted 18-Dec-2014 Thu 04:49]
  Ah, the joys of parliamentary English.

I assumed `laid before parliament` meant that parliamentary approval was sought/needed.

That said it seems merely to be a flashy term used to describe that something has been published.
http://www.parliament.uk/site-information/glossary/laid-or-laying-before-parliament/

So Clegg did not get to vote on it. Neither did anyone else. That said, he`s still the party leader in a coalition. He could have blocked this, had he wanted to.

Meanwhile I doubt this is to do with William Hague.
He may be `first secretary of state`, but there are plenty other secretaries of state.
My guess is that giving him that position is merely a way of keeping him in the cabinet, albeit without portfolio.

In this case the closest match would most likely be:
Sajid Javid, Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport.
The other two candidates I guess would be Department of Justice (Chris Grayling) and the Home Office (Theresa May).

sergio    [30537.   Posted 18-Dec-2014 Thu 03:31]
  http://legislation.data.gov.uk/cy/uksi/2014/2916/made/data.htm?wrap=true
The Audiovisual Media Services Regulations 2014

Made

4th November 2014

Laid before Parliament

6th November 2014

Coming into force

1st December 2014

These Regulations are made by the Secretary of State in exercise of the powers conferred by section 2(2) of the European Communities Act 1972(1).

The Secretary of State is a Minister designated for the purposes of that section in relation to information society services (2).


https://www.gov.uk/government/ministers/first-secretary-of-state
The Rt Hon William Hague MP

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30536.   Posted 17-Dec-2014 Wed 16:56]
  phantom

Here is the Hansard proceedings. I wonder if `negative` means that it didn`t get voted on. A positive one did have a resolution.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201415/minutes/141107/ldordpap.htm

phantom    [30535.   Posted 17-Dec-2014 Wed 15:59]
  Well, the way I see it, even if a regulation doesn`t go through parliament, the coalition parties who form the government bear joint responsibility.
After all, if one of the two coalition partners refuses to back it, it cannot go ahead.

In this case, we saw it get rushed through parliament.
So they cannot even claim it to be a mere cabinet stitch up.
they forced it through the parliamentary process as though it were an emergency law. Everyone waving it through.

But I did not hear a single protesting LibDem voice.
Where were those LibDems if they were so opposed to this?
Nowhere.

Now that it`s passed, one or two of the morons are asking for it to be repealed. (Fat chance!)
and now Clegg comes out announcing his opposition to a law the government he`s a part of has just passed!

It`s absolutely risible.

What is the man claiming?
`I didn`t know. I`m only Deputy Prime Minister.`
Is that it?

I may misunderstand this, but I believe parliament voted on this. However, it simply did not debate it.
If that is so, I`d love to know which way Clegg voted.

If anyone knows how to find out, please let me know.
I`ve tried `they work for you`, but can`t make sense of it.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30534.   Posted 17-Dec-2014 Wed 10:51]
  Phantom

It would be interesting to know what level of parliamentary interaction there is for these ministerial decrees. It would also be interesting to know which minster has been pushing through this undemocractic censorship. How can these people pass a new law that kills an entire industry without even the decency to give it a decent mention it in parliament.

This is the sort of democracy you get in the likes of China, Burma and Thailand

phantom    [30533.   Posted 17-Dec-2014 Wed 10:21]
  Well, I just tried finding out, but frankly don`t understand how `they work for you` works on that front.

But I`d still like to know:
Which way did Clegg vote then?

Are we saying he voted for something (I`d assume he voted for it as a cabinet member) which he did not properly understand?
If that`s the case, isn`t he a moron?

I see Clegg`s move as pure electioneering.

This is the man who gave up on the Great Repeal Act - a policy to which his coalition partners had agreed in the coalition talks.

So this is the politician who most likely should have been overseeing the repeal of the DPA, instead he`s part of a government which extends it.

And now he comes out and declares he`s against this extension?

Come on! The man is taking us for mugs.


Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30532.   Posted 17-Dec-2014 Wed 03:10]
  phantom

There is a chance that Clegg did not realise what it meant. It was not debated in parliament, just nodded through.

Before the Face-Sitting protest then it was probably justified as applying BBFC rules to online video. And before the protest I bet few realised that the BBFC/CPS rules were so naff and impinging on people`s sexuality.

phantom    [30531.   Posted 16-Dec-2014 Tue 18:51]
  re: Nick Clegg champions people`s `exotic` sexual kicks...

Hang on. Clegg is speaking out against the law?

He is doing so now? Now that it is passed?
Where was he while it was going through parliament?
This is a coalition government. He was part of the government which passed this.
Now he is honestly trying to make out it had nothing to do with him?

How can any minister come out to oppose a law his government has passed, - after it is passed?

Clegg kept shtum when his criticism could have mattered.
He speaks up now once the law is on the statutes.

The man is pure slime.

phantom    [30530.   Posted 15-Dec-2014 Mon 07:27]
  you might like this one:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-30432645

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/wales/11286232/Welsh-rugby-chiefs-urged-to-ban-Tom-Jones-Delilah-before-matches-at-Millennium-Stadium.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-30441537

BUT:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-30445260

No, no. He doesn`t want it banned at all...

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30529.   Posted 14-Dec-2014 Sun 14:26]
  Thanks Braintree, i will add an update.

rifdw/phantom

I presume you are referring to the work described here

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/internet/11284538/Soon-the-internet-will-be-impossible-to-control.html

Sounds interesting

braintree    [30528.   Posted 13-Dec-2014 Sat 15:32]
  I can confirm that the site mentioned on todays new pages is not being blocked by Virgin Media - maybe it was but its not today

phantom    [30527.   Posted 13-Dec-2014 Sat 08:34]
  rifdw [30526]

Hi ridfw,
I`m not sure i share your optimism in the short term.
In the longterm, I`ve always contended that censorship is a completely pointless exercise, doomed to failure.
But mass-surveillance technologies do seem to be emerging for the web.
and with the government bringing GCHQ on board to monitor the web on child porn, the road seems to be being paved to one day have GCHQ monitor for other online `offences` too.
With Britain in a pincer between the political right and left, both agreeing that they want censorship and will achieve it by any means, there seems very little reason for optimism right now.
Personally, I have come to the conclusion that this country has been lost for a generation. Liberal principles are as good as dead right now. Authoritarianism is on the rise.

rifdw    [30526.   Posted 13-Dec-2014 Sat 01:36]
  Don`t worry peeps, actions such as these further restrictions on adult freedoms will come to nothing
These attempts to control will simply drive the tech gurus to lock down the web so as no one will be able to manipulate it
Already there are developments which will mean isps will be by passed completely. The web s unstoppable Dont be fooled by the constant propaganda

sergio    [30525.   Posted 12-Dec-2014 Fri 16:41]
  Oh dear, it`s about spanking (or so the sensational media `sound bite` it as). Really, a fetish mask and that`s the level of `conversation`?

sergio    [30524.   Posted 11-Dec-2014 Thu 07:20]
  Radio 4 Today (11/12/2014) had some bit from a ceop operative - she, to my mind, came over as just so arrogant. It`s just another loophole they have to fill. What next? The illegal sniffing of children and their accoutrements. It`s a loophole that shit from nappies used for sexual purposes is still legal.

phantom    [30523.   Posted 11-Dec-2014 Thu 06:17]
  sergio [30522]

I see, you too have been enjoying the speech by our great, glorious leader, Kim Jong-Dave.

To be honest I`m a little perplexed about the `new offence` he announced of approaching a child sexually by phone, internet, etc.
Surely that falls under the term of grooming and already illegal.
I can only imagine it`s another one of those Blairesque duplications, whereby you make something illegal which already is, in order to shine in the daily Mail.

But what did seem concerning was the sheer raft of technology which seems to be emerging.

Keeping in mind that most adult content online is now illegal, we just saw Cameron giving us a glimpse of the sheer arsenal which will eventually deployed in blocking it.

Because there can be little ground that once the tools have been perfected in fighting child porn, they will be deployed against porn.

And remember, ATVOD is now the official UK online porn gatekeeper.
Given that even those foreign producers who have only perfectly regular porn online are breaking the law by not paying ATVOD a regulatory fee, it is only a matter of time until the sort of measures Cameron announced today will be used against the wider public and adult pornography.

As usual child pornography is being used as a the testing ground.
Once the legislative framework and enforcement techniques are established, they are soon widened into more mainstream, adult areas.

sergio    [30522.   Posted 11-Dec-2014 Thu 02:27]
  So, next year it`s going to be illegal to say to children `penis into vagina`...

phantom    [30521.   Posted 6-Dec-2014 Sat 17:14]
  Here`s an interesting thought.

The way things are currently set up anything on the net is subject to our courts.
Thus the ATVOD changes have really not just ruled what UK producers make illegal. Far more they have made all material on the net which does not comply with BBFC standards illegal. It is just that they cannot touch the foreign porn producers.

But that begs the question, how much of current worldwide online pornography is now deemed illegal due to ATVOD?

We all know that vast amounts of international porn would not pass the BBFC as they might contain even a snippet lasting seconds of something the BBFC does not allow.

Just how much of the world`s porn do we believe the UK has currently ruled illegal in this grandiose scheme?

Perhaps the campaigners opposing these laws would be best served sending letters to foreign governments asking them what they think about Mr Cameron implying that they are effectively harbouring `UK porn criminals`.

phantom    [30520.   Posted 6-Dec-2014 Sat 11:30]
  Sergio,
What chance that Blossfeldt photographed some kids as part of his body of work and that recently somebody complained about it?

The inability by some to comprehend that some art photographers capture the human form in all its guises seems to be pretty run of the mill these days.

Didn`t Elton John run into that very problem with some art photography he owned? I seem to recall a story on here once.

sergio    [30519.   Posted 6-Dec-2014 Sat 05:58]
  WTF? I was searching on google for "Karl Blossfeldt. The Complete Published Work" and at the end of the results I found this -

`Suspected child abuse content has been removed from this page. Report child abuse content. `

What?

goatboy    [30518.   Posted 5-Dec-2014 Fri 16:20]
  Mark Kermode has put up a video ranting about Warner Bros refusal to release the uncut version of The Devils. Interesting to see if that goes anywhere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBZ5bl8sYY4

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30517.   Posted 5-Dec-2014 Fri 00:47]
  re: The Truth about the Porn Law Changes...

All the puffed up censors are loving it aren`t they.

I thought it was interesting that the BBFC acknowledged that the government/police/CPS were writing their censorship rules.

The BBFC need to update their catchprhrase: "Ratings you trust...except for R18s, which are absolute Politically Correct/police censorship bollox"

phantom    [30516.   Posted 4-Dec-2014 Thu 21:06]
  re: The Truth about the Porn Law Changes...

And the prize for best load of corporate whoring on matters of ATVOD goes to Murray Perkins of the BBFC:

"The Audiovisual Media Services Regulations will ensure that UK on-demand content is consistent with legally available pornography off-line, benefiting from the application of UK law and the expert legal and medical advice which informs BBFC decisions."

So the censored are in fact not censored at all. Far more, they are permitted to benefit from the application of UK law! Fantastic!

phantom    [30515.   Posted 3-Dec-2014 Wed 20:42]
  The worrying fact behind the entire ATVOD story is that it makes no sense to persecute UK producers, as they are simply responsible for too small a part of the available pornography online for it too make any serious impact on the supply side of pornography on the UK internet – UNLESS – there is an ulterior motive behind the action.

Frankly, it cannot be that one has decided to rid the net of UK content alone. It serves no purpose.

But then ATVOD has been running for seven years now. Clearly the powers behind this are willing to play a very long game. Long enough to build a case over seven years and running....

My prediction is this. What now will follow will be a one or two year pause.
In this time one will prosecute and fine anything that moves via ATVOD.
The purpose of this is to demonstrate readiness to enforce the law.

Then, having established a track record of enforcement, one will then complain about how foreign material is undermining efforts to enforce the clearly expressed will of parliament to ban non BBFC compatible material and .protect children from seeing breasts.
In short; the purpose of this futile law is to enable complaint by ATVOD about its futility.
The law commits parliament to official BBFC standards online. Circumvention of parliament`s firm commitment by foreign sites then becomes a question of sovereignty. Parliament cannot be seen to lose.

This will then be the argument forwarded to move on blocking foreign sites. I strongly suspect that Cameron`s filter is more than likely the prototype for that very operation.

So expect a few high profile fines and some court cases in the next one or two years.
For only if the law is actively enforced will one be able to complain that foreign sites alone are circumventing it.
Then will follow a concerted campaign. Tabloid headlines: `My son died because of US porn` and the likes. One or two champion MPs like previously Messrs Salter and Lepper, bewailing the state of affairs. Followed by `responsible and proportionate action` by whatever government is in place.

Cameron`s filter will then be switched on for all (possibly via isp access, with counter measures for circumvention in place and draconian fines for attempted circumvention) and form the basis for the Great Firewall of Britain.

Personally, I firmly believe that recent events make the above inevitable.
Trying to rid the world of UK material alone serves no purpose.
So the purpose must be something else.
Enforcing a strict ban on UK material only makes sense if the goal is to move on foreign material.
But one cannot move on foreign material if one has shown no effort to kill one`s own production.
I cannot see any other reasoning behind this.

phantom    [30514.   Posted 2-Dec-2014 Tue 17:09]
  Yes, but we just had the recent pronouncement that vloggers must mention whether they`re sponsored to push a product. So yes, anyone working through youtube is feeling the cold grip of UK regulation clamping down also. There is not a soul who believes the sponsorship comment was the last edict to be issued regarding youtube clips.
One is moving slowly and stealthily. You tube clips will get clamped down on soon enough with more do`s and dont`s.

Personally I feel things are looking very bleak for the UK right now.
The problem is the political consensus by the establishment to crush online expression which is not approved.

I mean, not enough for ATVOD to want to be paid and to crush producers.
(i.e. those wanting to exercise the negative right of freedom of expression are actually being forced to pay for the positive right of not being offended for those who oppose them.)

But ATVOD even insist on people needing to notify them in advance before starting what they define as an on demand program service.

That`s as close to licensing of the net as you can come.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30513.   Posted 2-Dec-2014 Tue 17:01]
  Phantom

Well all with video, except YouTube that was luckily explicitly excluded in the EU law

phantom    [30512.   Posted 2-Dec-2014 Tue 14:16]
  Melon Farmers (Dave) [30511]

..."from all ATVOD qualifying websites"...

`ATVOD qualifying websites` are effectively all UK sites, no?


Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30511.   Posted 2-Dec-2014 Tue 00:54]
  Phantom

I have just noted that ATVOD have added a new rule 14, not primarily about R18. ATVOD will ban any video material that is banned by the BBFC from all ATVOD qualifying websites (not just adult ones), and furthermore for unclassified material, take their own view on what the BBFC would ban.

ATVOD is the new internet BBFC

...more to follow

phantom    [30510.   Posted 1-Dec-2014 Mon 13:50]
  Dave, you called it right. It`s armageddon.
UK sites have closed left right and centre.

By the look of it it`s pretty much a purge. Folks are running for the hills.

Sad to say, but the bad guys have won.
After years of trying they`ve finally got their BBFC standard on UK internet sites.

Worth remembering it was a Tory- LibDem coalition that did it. That, after the Labour DPA. Some choice...

phantom    [30509.   Posted 28-Nov-2014 Fri 14:13]
  Melon Farmers (Dave) [30508]
Jack Straw and the Mail.
What a wonderful combination, Dave.
The man who hamstrung the right to silence writing for a certain newspaper. What could produce more common sense?

Now first off, Jacky boy, as someone who knows his classics, I know that Nemesis was a Goddess, not a God, you moron.

Ah, and Mark Snowden is a posturing hypocrite. Even the `terrorists` friend`.

Meanwhile, internet companies are merely hiding behind `libertarian nonsense`.

Well, here`s what I think of Jacky.
While he was home secretary Jack`s glasses got smaller and smaller as he sought to appear more authoritarian.
So to hear a man who models his looks on Himmler, because he thinks it makes him look stern, talk of `liberal nonsense`... Well, what can I say... sometimes a pictures just says so much more.

Compare please.
Earlier Straw:
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/73419000/jpg/_73419765_000074234-1.jpg
Later `stern, authoritarian` Straw:
http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/british-foreign-secretary-jack-straw-adjusts-his-glasses-news-photo/2811230
And a certain German:
http://wpmedia.news.nationalpost.com/2014/01/heinrich-himmler-salute.jpg?w=940

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30508.   Posted 28-Nov-2014 Fri 09:36]
  Jack Straw steps into the fray of blaming Facebook and Snowden for... well everything

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2852535/Facebook-s-arrogance-Snowden-s-hypocrisy-risk-ex-Home-Secretary-devastating-attack-internet-giants-traitor-beloved-chattering-class.html

It is always a bit disconcerting when all the big guns start firing at the same time...Is something nasty in the offing?



Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30507.   Posted 28-Nov-2014 Fri 06:17]
  The War on Facebook

This all seems a little too unbelievable. How can a website be expected to monitor messages. Automated filtering, censorship etc is inevitably characterised by being crap. It would take some very AI systems to actually get a good handle on conversations which are hardly likely to be open and clear. I would suspect that dangerous conversations would be shrouded in jargon, euphemism and allusions where only participants would know the context. Surely this is what the security services should be expert at, not Facebook.

phantom    [30506.   Posted 27-Nov-2014 Thu 16:12]
  re: The war on Facebook

Yes, I love this facebook story.
Nothing is quite as magnificent as Malcolm Rifkind pontificating on the BBC about how `that American internet company` is failing in its responsibilities.

We spend billions on GCHQ. They everlastingly demand new powers in order `to keep us safe`. And when it turns out it was all rubbish and they are no more able to keep us safe than Postman Pat, what do they do? - It was all Facebook`s fault!
Why of course it was...

Meanwhile the police is handing out leaflets to commuters telling them to run and hide if they hear gunfire.
And why is that?
Well, Theresa May and GCHQ want more powers. In order to keep us safe again. So they stir up a little fear to further their aims.

Once upon a time, the UK government put up posters telling folks to `keep calm and carry on`. It was the blitz. Bombs were raining down on London. Literally. Meanwhile today they`re distributing leaflets telling us, `Panic! Now!` The last bomb went off seven (correction: nine!) years ago.

But at least we now know what Britons are made of these days.
If the tough get going, the British now run away and hide...

DarkAngel5    [30505.   Posted 27-Nov-2014 Thu 11:05]
  Test message, just ignore :-)

phantom    [30504.   Posted 27-Nov-2014 Thu 07:30]
  Another piece of little known censorship.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30209890

More power to John O`Farrell`s elbow, say I.

phantom    [30503.   Posted 26-Nov-2014 Wed 18:00]
  So, the authorities like to censor people.
But, pray, who gets to censor the authorities?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/police-leaflets-tell-commuters-to-run-hide-and-tell-in-event-of-mumbaistyle-terror-attack-9884019.html

Therumbler    [30502.   Posted 26-Nov-2014 Wed 15:57]
  http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/business-papers/lords/lords-divisions/

Howe`s amendment lost roughly 2-1.

I see that less than a quarter of the members bothered to show up. I don`t know if that`s a good thing or not.

phantom    [30501.   Posted 25-Nov-2014 Tue 19:47]
  Melon Farmers (Dave) {30499}

I agree with you that Labour are definitely driving away a great many working class men. I`ve seen it first hand with people I know.

But what I was disputing was that Labour were sensitive to that issue.

Miliband foamed because the white van man headline gave his lot a bad press on a day he was hoping for the Tories to suffer bad headlines.

But it is clear that he doesn`t comprehend the problem at heart or he`d start holding public speeches telling Dianne Abbott and the Eagle sisters that they cannot have everything they want, and that it is only right that they cannot. But he doesn`t. :)

Yes, I think there is a large section of the libertarian vote slushing around out there, looking for a home.
The LibDems turned out to be a damp squib. (What happened to that Great Repeal Act, Mr Clegg?)

The anti-establishment rhetoric of UKIP seems now to be attracting some of that vote, but possibly mistakenly so. With quite a number of old guard Tories staffing the ranks of UKIP, it`s hard to see them as the libertarian answer to the established politics of old.

Meanwhile, the established parties have made their home in `identity-politics`, which simply define society as a collection of `minority` groups. The aim is to simply satisfy these groups, devoid of any overarching principle.
Oddly, women are deemed such a minority group. Men of course are not. Especially not white van men who read the sun and have an England flag out the window. Politically that group does not exist.

Meanwhile, identity politics allows for groups to be traded off against each other. Gays score higher than Catholics, of course. And so on...

Thus, the working class no longer find their cause represented by Labour. Instead Labour stands for whatever `identities` it feels able to bond together into a coalition.
Foremost among those identities reign the `wimmin`. This group is deemed considerably more important to their overall goals than any old fashioned concepts of socialism or social justice.
In fact it is more than likely their primary political interest as a party right now.
As said, take a look at every single one of their female MPs.
It is clear that to the likes of those female MPs feminism ranks highest above all their political views.

With that staff base in the parliamentary group it is clear that ditching militant feminism is impossible for Labour, even if the leadership wanted to do so.
If once they were known as the `loony left`, then now they clearly have become the `loony feminists`.

Oddly however, the Tories - terrified at missing a trick - are not far behind. They are keen to shadow Labour in most of what they do, lest Labour gain an advantage. And vice versa.

The dilemma for the likes of us is that civil liberties are not a worthwhile minority identified by the established parties in their hunt for votes. Thus they are of no consequence.
Frankly, I suspect that is most likely the same with UKIP.

Meanwhile just look at the unanimous verdict by all present on BBC`s Questions Time about the supposed righteousness of Theresa May`s banning that pickup artist from entering the UK recently.
Freedom of expression doesn`t even figure on the political radar these days.

It`s something left to conspiracy theorists or terrorist sympathisers. Folks like us and Shami Chakrabarti.
that`s what we`re deemed by now. The loony fringe.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30500.   Posted 25-Nov-2014 Tue 04:12]
  Sergio,

I always wonder if the parents really want their kids to grow up in a non-sexualised world and suddenly find at the age of 18 that being sexy is of key importance to life.

Maybe the desexualisation glasses need the ability to peer over the top whenever necessary.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30499.   Posted 25-Nov-2014 Tue 03:26]
  Phantom,

I amused myself for a whiling trying to think of Labour women who are not feminist nutjobs, and you are absolutely right, I couldn`t think of one.

I agree entirely that there is no hope of any change, but surely the middle class feminist campaigning IS causing them to lose votes from working class men. And the concern must be there, hence, Miliband`s outburst at the white van man tweet.

Just because it will have no effect, doesn`t make it not worthwhile to pick at a sensitive spot.

I think there is a general dissatisfied rump of the electorate, that will support whatever is the best third party cause at the time. Maybe UKIP at the moment but maybe greens another time or even a return to the libdems (after they have spent some time on the naughty step). Of course it is much easier in Wales and Scotland to vote against the LabCon party via the nationalist parties

phantom    [30498.   Posted 24-Nov-2014 Mon 19:01]
  Melon Farmers (Dave) {30496}

"Perhaps it is worth alluding to a middle class feminist campaign that seeks to ban working men`s pleasures in life. I think Labour may be sensitive about this observation at the moment."

How so, Dave?
You mean because they might feel threatened by UKIP?
I think it would take a great deal more than UKIP to change Labour`s mind on any `middle class feminist campaign`.
After all, who is Labour`s deputy leader? Harriet Harman.
And can you think of any female Labour MP who isn`t a feminist nutbag?
Name one. Just one.

sergio    [30497.   Posted 24-Nov-2014 Mon 05:07]
  I am going to start a kickstarter campaign to invent desexualisation glasses.
These glasses put a discrete black covering over anything sexual. These are a godsend for busy parents who wish to have there little ones protected from anything sexual.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30496.   Posted 23-Nov-2014 Sun 01:14]
  Re Tesco `thinking of the children`

Perhaps it is worth alluding to a middle class feminist campaign that seeks to ban working men`s pleasures in life. I think Labour may be sensitive about this observation at the moment.

Sabreman64    [30495.   Posted 22-Nov-2014 Sat 02:39]
  http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/nov/22/tesco-tabloid-newspapers-display-protect-children-sexualised-images-page-3

WON`T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!?

Another victory for the miserable feminist lobby. They seem to be the modern day equivalent of Mary Whitehouse. And `Call me Dave` Cameron will be pleased with this news. Why don`t we just become a Sharia state now and ban all public display of female bare skin?

phantom    [30494.   Posted 19-Nov-2014 Wed 16:03]
  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30119100

If proof were needed just how vibrant freedom of expression in Britain is today, the story above surely shows us to be an open-minded, liberal utopia. Surely nobody else is as free as us.

Foremost of all in this story rank:
Yvette Cooper (Lab), Lynne Featherstone (LibDem) and Theresa May (Con)

Should the established parties be wondering why they`re struggling to gain traction among the British public, that odd unanimity on a petty subject like this might just give them a pointer.

Effectively, if you are a foreign national and you want to come to Britain, you better have views which are pre-approved by the political elite.
If not, then you`re not permitted.

Any similarity to cold war eastern Europe is, of course, purely coincidental.

Oh and if you don`t like what someone is saying, start a petition.
If there turn out to be enough of you, you can silence that person.
It`s not liberal democracy. It`s not Stalinism. It`s no doubt what Blair called `the third way`.

Can`t we just sink this island and start over?

phantom    [30493.   Posted 18-Nov-2014 Tue 16:56]
  Yep, I too think Cameron wants to bang the drum about this censorial nonsense in the run up to the election.
As I`ve said before, the pollsters have identified female voters as the key constituent of this election.
The advice both major parties are receiving is that creating more censorship appeals to this demographic.
Thus, both parties now do not only have a desire to censor. No, now they think they have a need to censor.
They truly believe that he who is more prohibitive will be preferred in the elections.
Personally I believe that view is a nonsense.
Not only is it the pursuit of votes at the cost of any adherence to principle, I also believe it is plain wrong.
I do not believe that the female vote is that much more censorious than the male.
If I`m right then the policies being pursued here are not only bad in principle, but they are not even populist.
In short; they`re just pointless.
But given the state of British politics and the absence of any meaningful ideas on either side, this is the sort of lunacy politicians cling to these days.

If in doubt, just look at Lynne Featherstone. You could not make it up.

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30492.   Posted 18-Nov-2014 Tue 06:47]
  Phantom

It is a bit unfair on websites. We`ve only just notice the new law 2 weeks after it was passed leaving just 2 weeks for webmasters to censor their websites.

It rather suggest that Cameron is keen to bang on about this during the run up to the election.

Coincidently I got a circular emall from Cameron yesterday claiming:

"we will carry on backing businesses by scrapping red tape, cutting taxes - and continuing to invest in the infrastructure that is vital to create jobs and enable Britain to compete successfully in the global race".

Well if Cameron considers this new law as `backing businesses` and `scrapping red tape` then Britain is doooomed.

phantom    [30491.   Posted 17-Nov-2014 Mon 14:34]
  The Audiovisual Media Services Regulations 2014

"These Regulations may be cited as the Audiovisual Media Services Regulations 2014.

Laid before Parliament on 6th November 2014

Coming into force on 1st December 2014."

Interesting dates.
Are they per chance in a hurry?

phantom    [30490.   Posted 16-Nov-2014 Sun 08:49]
  Ah yes, Benny Hill...
Terrible what he got away with. Such a bad man.
Or maybe all the outrage is just pretentious puffery.

`Alternative comedy` has a lot to answer for when it comes to the rise of political correctness in this country.

In essence much of the outrage at the `old fashioned comics` was used as a tool by the new `alternative` comics to get up the ladder faster than would have ordinarily been the case.

The careers of the likes of Ben Elton, Jo Brand, Alexi Sayle etc got a leg up much earlier than would have been traditionally the case, because the existing hierarchy in comedy was effectively decapitated.
New comics were needed, because the old ones were suddenly deemed unacceptable, - rather tellingly, - by the new comics.

Thus, much of the `outrage` was generated by the newcomers who wanted those at the top to move over - to make way for them. i.e. self interest. It had in fact nothing to do with comedic material.
Nobody invented a `new` form of comedy.
This was the very reason why some of the old hands were rather bitter at how they were being disposed of.

Meanwhile the cutting edge alternative rebels have long since shown their colours. Ben Elton works with Andrew Lloyd Webber. And Jo Brand presents for the Great British Bake Off. So proper anti-establishment rebels. Not merely in it for the money at all.
Right on. Up the Revolution!

And as for Benny. He was a comic genius. Let them say about him what they like. As it turned out, Charlie Chaplin had all his videos. Rumour has it, Charlie knew a thing or two about comedy...

Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30489.   Posted 16-Nov-2014 Sun 00:40]
  Thanks Phantom

I enjoyed `it was alright in the 70s` on channel 4.

It was fun watching the modern commentators feign shock at some of the very unPC 70`s programming such as Benny Hill.

Somehow the argument is that of pure morality when perhaps there is a more important economic aspect. It may have been shocking but at least people had the freedom get on with the job of making money.

Now everything is banned on grounds of safety/political correctness/health/child protection we seem to have the problem of a stagnating and declining economy

phantom    [30488.   Posted 15-Nov-2014 Sat 17:49]
  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-30052071

 


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