DoodleBug [30984. Posted 21-Jul-2016 Thu 07:57]
I fully agree with you that there is no reason for the movie to be censored, but notice as well that the version submitted was also pre-cut by AMC Networks
Melon Farmers (Dave) [30983. Posted 21-Jul-2016 Thu 07:13]
I will get this written up tomorrow. I presume this is more about Ofcom`s investigation of Horror Channel`s broadcast rather than any new release.
Glenn Quagmire [30982. Posted 20-Jul-2016 Wed 11:39]
This was my email to the BBFC:
Dear Sir / madam
I see that, once again, you have felt the need to cut the remake of "I Spit On Your Grave".
Being in possession of a full, uncensored version, I have been fortunate to bear witness to the director`s intended vision. The board should not be cutting this film. It is incredibly insulting and hypocritical that the board are more than happy to pass "Baise Moi" uncut (and rightly so!) but insist on censoring a film that will have appeal to the masses, rather than just the middle class art brigade. Of further insult is the blatant ignoring of public opinion that you, ever so proudly, claim to shape your guidelines. On this very site, the previous public consultation undertook by the BBFC is there for all to read. However, some of the viewers felt that the film could easily pass uncut given the second half of the film and her retribution to the culprits. This clearly counterbalances the graphic scenes of rape. You seemed to have ignored the advice of the general public and proceeded to do as you wish.
Your claims of "eroticised sexual violence" is worrying to say the least. I`ve yet to meet, or speak to, anybody who found any of the films erotic or eroticised. This is something that obviously only the board is seeing. No one else is. Sorry? Who are you protecting, again?
It is also worth noting that the OFLC, the Australian censorship body, has passed all the films uncut and their guidelines are stricter than yours! Plus, there is NO recorded evidence that any harm has come to anybody as a result of these films being available uncut anywhere in the world. And the majority of people in Britian have seen the uncut versions of them. Still no reports of harm.
Glenn Quagmire [30981. Posted 20-Jul-2016 Wed 10:25]
The BBFC have, once again, cut 2010 version of "I Spit On Your Grave". This is AFTER the BBFC "consultation" that defines the boards policies said that the board was heavy handed and shouldn`t have been cut. So, in a nutshell, the BBFC completely ignore the public and do whatever they want, all the while spouting platitudes and crap about "public consultation"! Waste of space and money. Thank god I imported the uncut versions. I`m going to write an email to the board pointing this out. No doubt, they`ll do what they did last time and ignore it with only a simple response of "look at our guidelines on sexual violence". Dick heads!
Melon Farmers (Dave) [30980. Posted 9-Jul-2016 Sat 00:13]
Re porn selling. I guess most of these businesses rely on mailing lists or repeat customers. I can`t imagine anyone can list films for sale on eBay, but maybe they can use eBay more to scout out interest in softer titles, and send them flyers for their mail order business.
braintree [30979. Posted 7-Jul-2016 Thu 14:30]
The news pages report a seller of unclassified porn on ebay getting a fine. I wonder how he listed them as I can never find porn on ebay uk. At the very least he should have taken the precaution of having both ebay and paypal accounts under fake ID`s which would make him a bit less easy to trace.
sergio [30978. Posted 7-Jul-2016 Thu 08:20]
Can anyone explain this phrase?
`In a country where women are told to stay indoors and many cannot freely choose who they marry, she promotes her upfront version of sexualised femininity online.`
braintree [30977. Posted 6-Jul-2016 Wed 13:24]
That`s strange then because it`s usually easy to find the US release on ebay ( from uk sellers) but the UK release is removed all the time.
Ebay are a law unto themselves and I`ve asked them about the reasons but it`s easier to get into the Queens bedroom than it is to talk to someone at ebay who actually has any position of authority. You`ll never find anyone familiar with the titles ebay removes and the usual brush off is that BBFC classification doesn`t mean Ebay won`t remove items that break it`s own set of rules.
I am amazed that after over 20 years of having a monopoly that someone with the money and scope of Branson or Murdoch have not tried to offer a viable alternative to ebay. It seems like an easy market to crack - all it needs is someone with the financial muscle to operate on a worldwide scale. All previous attempts to break ebays stranglehold have been lacklustre
DoodleBug [30976. Posted 5-Jul-2016 Tue 14:04]
I think I posted about this previously when it happened to me last year. Although in my case I was selling the US disc of Nekromantik. The funny thing was Ebay removed my listing after I had sold it so not sure what they gained from it !
I did send an email back to them saying that there rules were out of date and questioned how they could remove a movie which was now legally certified in the UK but got no response. I noticed at the time there were a handful of other listings all happily selling the same edition.
braintree [30975. Posted 5-Jul-2016 Tue 13:19]
I believe the restriction on ebay.com is to prevent illegal imports into the UK. I don`t think ebay UK even has an Adult section. At any rate their list of banned titles is way out of date. Try to sell the UK disc of Nekromantic and see how long it lasts. Strangely UK sellers can sell the US disc but not the UK one. There are other titles too.
sergio [30974. Posted 4-Jul-2016 Mon 13:45]
I can buy an air rifle but not any adult only items on ebay.com.
`Sorry, you are not allowed to view, sell, bid on or purchase items in the Adult Only category.
Due to restrictions regarding the sale of pornography over the Internet, access to listings in the Adult Only category has been restricted. Continue shopping or return to your most recent search.`
Melon Farmers (Dave) [30973. Posted 1-Jul-2016 Fri 08:01]
The BBFC has today released its Annual Report covering 2015.
Melon Farmers (Dave) [30972. Posted 30-Jun-2016 Thu 01:38]
I have just spotted that a Director`s Commentary is 12 rated. The main feature is presumably still cut then, as there is no 12 rated version on the BBFC database.
braintree [30971. Posted 29-Jun-2016 Wed 13:32]
Re : the story on Cocoon being uncut for the first time on Blu as a 12. I purchased the Cocoon steelbook 2 years ago and this was also rated 12 but I`ve yet to watch it so can`t confirm if its uncut. I would assume the new release will be the same version even if it is a new transfer
phantom [30970. Posted 29-Jun-2016 Wed 07:37]
I find that a strange question, Sergio.
How do we stop crime? How do we stop cursing? Spitting in the street?
How do we stop wars? Or how do we stop biased reporting by media?
Or best of all, how do we stop politicians from being corrupt and lying to us?
There are plenty of things which are unsavoury about modern societies.
To ask these questions seems to serve little purpose.
The world is what it is. We should always aspire to improve, but not kid ourselves into thinking we can magic problems away.
Most of all we need to remember that British society is most likely the least racist and chauvinist society on the planet.
A slight uptick in anecdotal events after a referendum do not make for a sudden outbreak of national racism.
Least we should try to do is to somehow censor our way out of a problem.
sergio [30969. Posted 29-Jun-2016 Wed 06:51]
How do we stop racism?
Melon Farmers (Dave) [30968. Posted 24-Jun-2016 Fri 01:25]
Thanks goatboy, I added the note about episode 16.
goatboy [30967. Posted 22-Jun-2016 Wed 18:51]
The alternative version of Walking Dead just has added swearing I believe. (AMC shows are weird in that 18 cert violence is fine, but there`s only limited PG level swearing allowed) The producers said they filmed bluray scenes so a character could retain his dialogue from the comic book.
sergio [30966. Posted 11-Jun-2016 Sat 13:03]
Melon Farmers (Dave) [30965. Posted 5-Jun-2016 Sun 09:00]
Sorry for the lack of updates. I have spent the weekend traveling. Back to normal on Monday.
sergio [30964. Posted 28-May-2016 Sat 03:46]
I found this while looking at https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/removals/copyright/owners/37534/Metropolitan/
phantom [30963. Posted 27-May-2016 Fri 13:32]
I`m not sure that voices of the left are necessary for what I am alluding to.
In essence I believe it`s about getting serious opposition to political correctness into politics.
Effectively the world needs a force in politics to take on political correctness. Some force. Any force. So far there has never really been such a force.
If the self-proclaimed `cultural libertarians` can hoist their ideas and principles into the bowels of the Republican party then at least there would be some serious political organisation prepared to fight politically correct culture.
Having at least one major party wedded to the idea of killing off political correctness would give the US at least a fifty percent chance of eventually getting a government which would do something about it.
It would also mean that Democratic congressmen and senators whose seats are contested would need to take opposition to political correctness on board in order to regain their seats.
In short: political correctness needs to be fought in the public arena.
As you say, nobody feels free to actually stand up to it. Folks could get themselves fired or otherwise ostracised.
But if at last a major political party takes it on, things could happen.
That is where I see this phenomenon leading.
As for Trump, I don`t think `the Donald` holds out any significant hope against political correctness.
When folks like Milo Yiannopulos are backing him, I hear the agent provocateur speaking.
I don`t think Trump is the answer to anything.
When I speak of `cultural libertarianism` having a great chance of taking a hold of the Republicans, it is completely unconnected to Donald Trump.
That said, I am getting the sense that he is more than likely going to win.
However, if America advances a mainstream political voice opposed to political correctness (the Republican party, not Trump) then I wonder how long it will be that someone in mainstream UK politics highlights the fact that Britain is being treated as one great `safe space` in which no-one is permitted to say the wrong thing or look at the wrong picture for fear of someone being `triggered`...
sym [30962. Posted 27-May-2016 Fri 09:09]
You make a very convincing argument Phantom, and I certainly believe that the grassroots you describe to the right of US politics will ultimately contribute to a groundswell movement at some indeterminate time. However, I can’t see it being fully realised until some more rational, popular voices on the left come forward, allowing for a more bipartisan discussion beyond the usual mudslinging. Whilst I personally don’t subscribe to the left / right dichotomy it would be foolish to deny the power of its mobilisation. For this reason, I fear that without a “bridge” the same old dividing lines will simply be perpetuated and become even more entrenched.
I don’t think it is too far off the mark to say that -outside of the political and social media bubble - the force of public opinion, if pressed privately on matters of pc culture, would come out against its current extensions and intrusions into everyday life. Yet so powerful and recriminatory are its harbingers that a climate of fear effectively silences dissent. Unlike the no-platforming agenda that allows ‘left thinkers’ - like Greer, Burchill, and I assume the aforementioned Summers - to revel in their banned status with a sense of incredulous pride, the left-leaning public - largely oblivious to such matters - have no such avenue to vent even if they wanted too. Which begs the question, would it be counter productive to hope - against ones better judgement - that Trump takes the presidency just to sock it to the social justice contingency?
phantom [30961. Posted 26-May-2016 Thu 12:49]
Yes, I perfectly understand what you mean. Within the social media bubble it is easy to get delusional about things.
But the reason I mentioned this is because I`ve been observing it for a while and it does seem more than just a storm in a tea cup. It seems to be gathering momentum – on the American right.
The very fact that some of the heroes of this movement are turning up on websites and TV shows means that they are making an impact on right of centre audiences in the US. It means they are building bridgeheads within the Republican party and could therefore become a force on the political right.
I really don`t think it`s merely wishful thinking on my part. For one, I don`t share many of their Republican views. However, the sheer force of these folks seems to set them apart from regular voices of the American right.
Again, I agree, Sargon can be obsessive. But what makes him stand out (and what will be at the root of his having over 300,000 subscribers) is that he is well-spoken, reasoned and rational.
We also need to consider that his obsessing may also be due to economic factors. He needs to satisfy audience expectation.
Let`s be clear. Usually clips on youtube which command viewing figures of a quarter to half a million feature a kitten trapped in a basket of wool or Miley Cyrus` crotch.
So to see clips of folks talking about politics hit figures which at times come close to newspaper circulation figures suggests that something is going on.
When you listened to American right wingers over the past twenty years, rationality was not your immediate impression. The religious right and the Tea Party movement were (and still are) hysterical types.
But I challenge anyone to listen to a character like Ben Shapiro and not feel the sheer weight of intellect behind the man. Again, it`s not about agreeing with all of his views (and in his case he could not be called an anti-censorship advocate – but he`s nonetheless part of the movement against political correctness).
I simply get the impression that such a movement – with such a force of argument, eloquence and intelligence behind it – cannot be ignored for long.
They are – ironically – the real `young turks`. A new generation of educated, energised young men champing at the bit to make an impact.
Which is why I suspect it only a matter of time until they have an effect.
It will not be on the mainstream media that they appear first. That is not where they could affect things. But on the political right.
The social justice movement has dramatically overreached itself in the last few years and the Democrats are wholly subscribed to it. So the possible impact of turning the Republicans into the effective counter force to political correctness could be considerable.
The effect could well be global rather than merely domestic.
I know the US is a different case than the UK – not least as they have freedom of expression guaranteed by the constitution. But where the US lead, we invariably tend to follow.
If the US is about to begin a political counter revolution against political correctness, then a country with such close cultural relations as the UK will not remain unaffected.
So, I`m not saying that a mainstream revolt against political correctness is imminent. But I think what has been happening over the past two or three years – aside from the sheer soundness of the new movement`s foundations - seems to suggest it will have an impact. A new generation of young Republicans is being enthused by these online voices preaching free expression.
I get a strong sense of where this is headed. Especially, as the Republican party is currently out of any other ideas – thus, in need of one which can be translated in opposition to the Democrats.
Much of the underpinning of the mini revolution has been supplied by Christina Hoff Sommers in a book she wrote over twenty years ago (Who stole Feminism?). At the time of her publishing the book, she got nowhere with it. The time was just not right. But anyone who has followed things can see that she has been gaining traction recently. She too is on youtube and is part of the whole movement I describe.
Her book is often quoted online as the chief debunking tool of fake, exaggerated claims by militant feminism. (the ludicrous 5 in 1 rape claims, wage gap, etc)
What makes her all the more credible is that Hoff Sommers, who once held a professorship in philosophy, is in fact a signed up Democrat and a feminist. So hers is not some right-wing agenda.
I have read her book some time ago. It is an eye opener. At times full of dry statistics, it literally destroys most feminist claims of victimhood.
Now I`m hardly saying that what I predict is guaranteed to happen. I`m no soothsayer. But I`ve seen a good many things come and go. This movement possesses real energy. Young audiences are clearly reacting to it. Most of all, it has a worthwhile goal.
It seems to me that this is going to go somewhere. Fast.
Incidentally, Milo Yiannopoulos just had his latest event at DePaul University halted by protesters who took over the stage, snatched the mike and threatened violence. They could not have made his argument for free speech any better for him...
sym [30960. Posted 25-May-2016 Wed 09:19]
Phantom, I too have noticed the phenomenon you speak of, and yes, it is heartening although I wonder how far outside of the echo chamber of social media it extends, with pretty much the orthodox media channels channels fully signed up and subscribed to the ’social justice’ agenda in perhaps a less fanatical but nevertheless unquestioning form. When the ‘1 in 5’ campus rape claim or pay gap statistics are allowed to be disseminated almost unchallenged with the exception of Fox News - which in itself comes with its own baggage - you have to wonder.
Whatever your political beliefs however, it’s good to see such a diverse range of opinion coming together to counter much of the hogwash spouted by so-called ‘liberal’ commentators and activists which is not just confined solely to the Right. There’s the Young Turks defector The Rubin Report, MRA’s, a slew of V.J’s, stand-up comedians, and most promising of all, an increasing number of academics working to highlight issues from within. Professor Janice Fiamengo, under the Studio Brule youtube channel, is particularly compelling, a former 2nd wave radical feminist once involved in the ‘take back the night’ campaign, now openly supporting male representation issues from a biological and cultural standpoint. Gad Sadd is also interesting.
I think Sargon obsesses a little too much on some of the finer points of interpretation, but he seems to be a genuine enquirer as evidenced by his recent interview with Tommy Robinson formerly of the EDF. As you said, Milo is certainly a provocateur and his recent tour of US universities has been both a depressing eyeopener and comedy gold. Of course, much of the conversation in the US centres around private censorship via social media ‘trust councils’ , media bias, and campus regulations, and less on the kind of legal obstacles that curtail free speech in the UK and Canada.
Melon Farmers (Dave) [30959. Posted 21-May-2016 Sat 01:11]
I will look further into this and get something posted on the main site.
phantom [30958. Posted 20-May-2016 Fri 17:18]
I would like to ask whether anyone here has noticed a new phenomenon: `cultural libertarianism`.
It seems to be enjoying a groundswell right now – on the American political right. It is young, literate and pretty dynamic. I`m beginning to suspect it might be an important factor in the future of American politics of the centre right. Not in its present form. - But ideas travel very quickly nowadays.
Much of it seems to have crystallised around an incident called `Gamergate` in which online gamers clashed virulently with feminists who were deriding all games and gamers as sexist and misogynist.
It was a bitter online war which almost went unnoticed by the rest of the world.
But it seems from there to have broadened and become a distinct movement very quickly.
It seems directed mainly at feminism and other forms of political correctness. Its intellectual weight is drawn from opposition to authoritarianism and prescriptive thinking. We`re talking pure enlightenment thinking here. It seems to be gathering pace very quickly.
Now intuitively you would think you`d find liberals to the left of the political spectrum, due to how politics have functioned so far.
The reason `cultural libertarianism` finds itself on the political right is because the political left is largely the champion of all things politically correct. So not all `cultural libertarians` appear to be gun-toting Texans who love Donald Trump. Far from it in fact.
The term `cultural libertarianism` seems to have been created in opposition to `cultural Marxism` which is the term many on the political right use in the US for political correctness.
What is remarkable is the force of reason among those people. They are calm, deliberate, logical types with more than a mere whiff of university about them. So this is not right wing talk radio.
They are becoming quite a force on Twitter and Youtube.
Contributors like `Sargon of Akkad` (a Brit, btw) regularly has videos with a quarter of a million views on youtube. That does not seem to me a random occurrence. This whole thing truly seems to possess momentum.
Another Brit, Milo Yiannopoulos, seems to be their poster boy right now. (Imagine the gay love child of George Osborne and Boris Johnson.) He often plays agent provocateur, but at times can turn serious and become quite heavyweight. He is no fool and at times makes highly eloquent arguments for freedom of expression.
Aside from this internet persona of his, he is a columnist for the right wing online publication `Breitbart`.
The Republican party in the US is undergoing a catharsis right now. The religious right, which had launched Bush Jr to the presidency, has lost its hold over the party. The radical right-wing Tea Party movement has gone nowhere. It achieved little else than political sabotage. With Trump rampaging as Republican candidate, the party is desperately looking for a new idea, a new identity to pin the GOP badge on.
`Cultural libertarianism` may well be that new thing. Its moment may have come.
The Democrats are in not much greater health than the Republicans. The left in the US – much like in the UK – have long since abandoned the politics of representing the working classes and have instead started championing political correctness.
Thus one can see from where `cultural libertarianism` is coming. It`s diametrically opposed to the core values of the political left: Third wave feminism, social justice dogma, `safe spaces` at universities, equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity, quotas for women and minorities, token media representation, etc...
It goes without saying that `cultural libertarianism` is very strongly anti-censorship.
If `cultural libertarianism` gets a firm foothold in Republican politics, it may well prove a godsend to a world drowning in thought crimes and hate speech prohibitions.
Interestingly, in the UK it would provide a dilemma for the political right. The Tories are no longer wedded to the Republicans as they were in the 1980s. They have whole-heartedly embraced many of the concepts of political correctness. So if `cultural libertarianism` does eventually prove to be a new political force of the right in the US, it would be tricky for the British political right to emulate them (unless some party like UKIP fills that vacuum).
Anyway, sorry for going all heavy here.
But I thought this was an observation I`d share with you folks, because I really think something interesting is afoot. There may be a little spec of light for those who dislike censorship and it`s coming from a very unexpected direction.
Melon Farmers (Dave) [30957. Posted 16-May-2016 Mon 05:19]
Re I Spit On Your Grave on Horror Channel.
schnittberichte.com is pointing out that a January showing of I Spit on Your Grave wasn`t actually a BBFC approved version. The website concludes that the Horror Channel did its own edit which although cut, was stronger than the BBFC version.
braintree [30956. Posted 14-May-2016 Sat 13:53]
Certainly on Freeview Ofcom expect 18 material to be after 10pm and then they even whinge if some very strong stuff appears too soon after 10.
I don`t know their schedule but if they played the original I Spit On Your Grave even the BBFC version at 9pm that is asking for trouble. Stagefright is uncut at 18 so again , 9pm too early. But The Horror Channel schedule is weird. I`ve seen tv shows airing during the day that really shouldn`t be unless they are cut. I got the impression THC thought themselves exempt from censor wrangles simply because they are a niche channel. But they do actually show some good stuff although most dedicated fans will have most of it on dvd already. Hats off to them for airing what they do and uncut when they can so best they don`t upset Ofcom
Melon Farmers (Dave) [30955. Posted 13-May-2016 Fri 21:50]
Re Ofcom and horror novies>
I would guess that Ofcom`s problems with these horror films is to do with a 9pm showing. I interpret Ofcon;s post watershed rule to maean that 18 rated material or even strong language shouldn`t be shown until 10pm
Therumbler [30954. Posted 12-May-2016 Thu 11:25]
I`m unsure what Stage Fright`s under investigation for. Some gore in it, but no more than a Game of Thrones episode.
DoodleBug [30953. Posted 10-May-2016 Tue 14:01]
As Glenn Quagmire noted the first Hunger Games is available uncut on UK Blu-ray in its individual release but cut on DVD. But for some bizarre reason which has been confirmed by a few Amazon customer reviews the Blu-ray boxset versions only contain the censored 12 cert version. All I can think of is that the distributor didn`t want to limit the possible audience of the boxsets by having to increase the overall rating to a 15 when the rest of the movies are a 12 also.
braintree [30952. Posted 10-May-2016 Tue 13:32]
Blurays are more expensive to produce than dvd`s which is why many studios use the exact same disc worldwide with just differences in packaging and labelling. Even on region free discs the region coding of the player can also instruct the disc to play the copyright warnings for the relevant country only making a single disc for the world easy. So that begs the question as to whether The Hunger Games is uncut in other countries.
Of course this is all moot if the movie is one licenced or owned by different studios in each country.
Melon Farmers (Dave) [30951. Posted 10-May-2016 Tue 00:46]
Perhaps the era of Blu-rays being expensive to encode is over and the distributors can now cheaply use cut versions. Generally the distributors seems happy with uncut 15s over cut 12s, but perhaps the teen target audience makes a difference to this generality.
It is not offering much for a exclsuivity window of 1 year. The vast majority of films are `exclusive` to the company issuing the first DVD/Blu-ray release. Not many get another release within a year.
braintree [30950. Posted 9-May-2016 Mon 16:07]
Stupidity probably. The uncut version of Die Hard 4 was released on dvd yet the Bluray boxset still only includes the PG-13 version so the UK remains one of the few still without it on Bluray. The Woman In Black was certified 12 cut and 15 uncut but the 15 version remains unavailable in the UK.
The cynic in me would suggest these longer versions will eventually make an appearance in an attempt to get buyers to shell out all over again.
Glenn Quagmire [30949. Posted 9-May-2016 Mon 12:53]
Does anybody find it strange that the blu ray boxset of "The Hunger Games" is only a 12 meaning that the cut cinema/DVD version is being used despite being originally released uncut on blu ray? This doesn`t make sense to me. Why would they do this?
braintree [30948. Posted 8-May-2016 Sun 13:17]
Not really a censorship issue but this seemed as good a place as any to mention that Arrow have made a serious error with their latest releases which include the Early Works of David Cronenberg, listed very clearly on the Videodrome LE as a Limited Edition Exclusive. Critics of the move have been presented with something from Arrow that will cost them dearly. Arrow now say that something listed as a LE Exclusive only keeps that status for one year.The only good thing is that there is now no need at all to pay top prices for the ever increasing number of Arrow Limited Edition titles when we know that a year later we can buy it all cheap.I`m surprised Arrow are stupid enough to think such a crap reason is enough to justify such a catastrophically bad PR move. How many Arrow LE titles have been cancelled in the last 24 hours I wonder. All mine for starters.
Usually Arrow have been upfront about which elements of any LE release will receive a regular release months later but it appears they`ve invented this convenient 1 year window nonsense as an excuse to release the Early Works. I doubt I`m the only one who`s last bit of goodwill toward Arrow has gone down the pan
phantom [30947. Posted 6-May-2016 Fri 14:56]
Well, it`s a common tactic on many a forum to become very tired of a subject, or for it to have been merely a joke, or one having only played devil`s advocate (the tropes are many), if one encounters determined opposition.
The phenomenon is quite well known.
Generally it`s a sleight of hand played to close down a debate which one has grown uncomfortable with, rather than one which has exhausted itself.
Usually it involves the implication that the other party which is trying to engage in debate is taking this much too seriously. They ought to get a life, etc...
That`s why I made reference to the card trick.
So, there`s no need to suggest I`m confused.
braintree [30946. Posted 6-May-2016 Fri 13:52]
Actually is IS because I`m tired of talking about it. It`s not a card trick at all. It`s a logical thing to do when there`s nothing else to add.
I`m sorry if it`s confusing
phantom [30945. Posted 6-May-2016 Fri 06:06]Previous >>
We best stop talking about it.
Not because you`re `tired` of debating it. (That`s one of those debating card tricks.)
But because by talking about it, we`re advertising the issue yet further - according to your logic.
I worry how many paedophiles we`ve sparked off with this exchange alone.
Unless of course words do not hold magic powers...
But as you say, we`ll agree to differ.