Melon Farmers

 phantom    [30270.   Posted 3-Aug-2014 Sun 06:22]
Harvey [30269]
You are of course perfectly right on this one, Harvey.

But I think you can see from where I`m coming.
When this ghastly law was going through parliament we were given no end of rhetoric how this only applied to the most depraved cases. This would only ever catch cases which were so extreme they were in danger of falling off the end of the shelf. The extreme end of extreme, so to speak.
They were very insistent on this.
You remember the impact assessment? Only 12 estimated prosecutions? Thus no significant impact. We`re now running at a thousand cases per year and two guys who thought they`d deleted material they never asked for have just been done.
The lie that was told to parliament has by now become so big, it makes you want to scream.

"They included a man pumping air into his disfigured genitals, a man having sex with an amputee and a woman having sex with a horse."

Now we both understand that bestiality is deemed illegal under the DPA.
But I find the other two listed examples somewhat baffling. Admittedly, the idea of blowing up one`s genitalia like a kids balloon seems a little strange to me. But the guy was doing it to himself, giving him no doubt some control over the procedure and I struggle to envisage `serious injury` resulting from this.
Best by far is the `sex with the amputee`. How that per se is to fall under the definition of extreme porn is beyond me.
Clearly this is just defining what some people call `weird` as `extreme` under law. In essence it`s becoming a way of enforcing sexual conformity.

All the while these two were originally arrested on `an unrelated matter`.
It all appears a travesty of justice.

 Harvey    [30269.   Posted 2-Aug-2014 Sat 21:23]
phantom [30268]

`safeguards`?

There is a defence to the s.63 offence in a case where a person is sent an image without requesting it.

BUT... for that defence to apply, the person must not keep the image for an unreasonable time.

These poor saps didn`t even realise that it is an offence to possess the images they`d been sent. One said he had deleted them from the phone app which had been used to send them to him, but didn`t realise they`d been stored elsewhere on the same phone.

This is exactly the kind of situation we predicted would happen once the new offence got established. People who have no interest in "extreme porn" being hoovered up when their computers (or in this case, phones) are examined for completely unrelated reasons.

Most worryingly, neither defendant was represented at trial. Had they had any competent legal advice before meekly pleading guilty? They may think that by doing so and recieving a conditional discharge, they have been dealt with leniently, but that conviction will resurface in the future and thzey will be flagged up as sexual deviants, long after the circumstances and the sentence have been forgotten.

Whatever those files were, if they are being circulated to the unsuspecting by apps on smartphones, these will not be the only two people to have recieved them and they won`t be the only files in circulation, either.

http://courtnewsuk.co.uk reports the case also:
"TICEHURST: FRIENDS CAUGHT WITH EXTREME ANIMAL PORN

CANVEY ISLAND; ROMFORD Two friends who kept `truly disgusting` sex videos involving horses, dogs and pigs on their mobile phones escaped punishment today (FRI). Gary Ticehurst, 28, and Mark Kelly, 25, were caught with the extreme pornography after being stopped by police at Fenchurch Street Station in central London. They included a man pumping air into his disfigured genitals, a man having sex with an amputee and a woman having sex with a horse. Prosecutor Thomas Coke-Smyth told the Old Bailey: `There is no evidence to suggest the defendants were in any way involved in distributing these images."

I suppose despite this being reported in the DM, Liz Longhurst was unavailable for comment.

 phantom    [30268.   Posted 2-Aug-2014 Sat 13:10]
re: Extreme Injustice...

What happened to all those `safeguards`?
Only the most extreme, disgusting cases? 12 cases per year at the most?
Most certainly nobody who hasn`t gone looking for it and has only come across it by accident. I remember the assurances quite clearly.
Where did all that go?

 phantom    [30267.   Posted 2-Aug-2014 Sat 13:00]
re: Whips at the Ready...

Strange how sometimes some of the stories on here can be funny and terrifying simultaneously.

"I believe that a majority of people are not buying into these lies, but they are bullied by the mainstream media into staying silent."

Lies? It`s a book, right? And they`ve made a movie? A work of fiction...
And the majority of people are bullied into silence by the media? On sex? Interesting concept.

"The popular series promotes torture as sexually gratifying and normalizes domestic violence, particularly violence against women."

I don`t think it`s Guantanamo Bay torture... And domestic violence? Now, I`ve never read Fifty Shades of Grey, but I really don`t think that assault and battery are the sort of thing that the author has in mind.
Meanwhile isn`t the readership of that book mainly female? So isn`t there a crack in the logic there somewhere?

And there is that odd verb `to normalise` again.
A bit like `to defenestrate` it appears to have one use.

"This type of material cultivates a rape and sexual violence culture and is now permeating our society."

I`ve heard this before... From the Prime Minister. So it MUST be right. For like Pooch, he`s also never wrong.
But odd, I`ve still to see it permeating our society. Anyone here spotted any dominatrices walking down the streets in thigh high boots, brandishing bull whips recently? I haven`t.

"The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), published by the American Psychiatric Association, states that sadism and masochism are mental disorders, which should be dealt with on a professional psychiatric level."

Ah, they are actually ill? So, a) one doesn`t like it, ergo b) there must be something wrong with the people involved. (Sound familiar, Pooch?)

But his never-wrongness aside, how do you actually treat sexual sadism or masochism? I mean, if it`s a condition. That would be interesting to know. Do you just give a dominatrix a pill and make it better? Or do you sedate these people into a stupor? Or is it a padded cell job?
Can you cure these people? You know, just in the way you cannot cure homosexuals.

"We must oppose the continued promotion of BDSM in our society. We will go after all public leaders that propagate the lies that torture and violence are normal and healthy sexual templates."

Public leaders?
You know that the west is currently getting its knickers in a twist over Putin`s laws banning the promotion of homosexuality in Russia? (how does one actually promote it?)
Is it just that he`s banning the promotion of the wrong thing? Not puffs, he should be doing whips and chains people instead? Is that it?

Should we be more discerning against whom we discriminate? Is that the message?
We`ve thought better of massacring Indians, lynching blacks and bullying gays. So now it`s time for the bondage folks?

I wish Morality in Media could tell us. After all, I suspect they know. They too will always stand by all their writings (or is it scripture in their case?) and I bet they too are never wrong.

I`d be willing to bet that sarcasm and irony will also not be a strong point of theirs.

 phantom    [30266.   Posted 2-Aug-2014 Sat 09:14]
Pooch [30265]
That`s quite pathetic, Pooch.

We`re getting all sorts of attempts by your good self to deflect this in a different, more convenient direction.
But it remains that you concluded the man had either limited talent or was a `sad, lonely individual`.
It is quite obvious that I`m objecting to the `sad, lonely individual` smear and the implication this invariably carries.

You`ve never met the man. You know virtually nothing about him, save for what you`ve picked up on the net.
The only other thing you know is that you don`t like his art.
Or should one say, you do not like the art he creates under said nom de plume. We have no idea whether he may in fact produce other material under other names.
So, `sad, lonely individual` it is. Because you are never wrong.

Odd, coming from someone who insists on there being forbidden words. It seems one is willing to dish it out generously. One just can`t take it.

And as for the Magna Carta comment.... My fault entirely. I forgot you were irony impaired.

 Pooch    [30265.   Posted 2-Aug-2014 Sat 06:52]
@Phantom [30261]. I`m not sure why you automatically equate bigotry with censorship, but it seems you wish to do so. Totally pointless, but so be it.

As shocking as this may be to you, but I am not being bigoted towards Rick Melton, as none of my comments are disaparaging of him because he is a white, (presumably) heterosexual, man. His race, creed, skin colour, sex, gender have nothing to do with how or why I am criticising him. Sorry to break that little bit of news to you! I`m sure you`ll be greatly disappointed!

I`m labelling him in the way I have, based on nothing more than his artistic output. So my view would be no different, if Mr Melton was actually Miss or Mrs Melton, and she was living in China; or if Mr Metlon was actually a transgendered person from Sweden, or even an Aboriginal gent from Australia! I`m criticising the output from someone who just happens to be a white, heterosexual man! Inferring anything else, is you distorting the actual issue!

Yes, he is entitled to draw what he likes. But to use your footballing analogy, if he were a football player who always played in exactly the same way, in every single match he participated in, I think you`d probably argue for that player to change their tactics, or “up their game”. I`m not telling Rick he cannot, must not, or should not draw naked/unclothed women in his art. I am merely asking him to change things around a bit, and not to feature them in every single piece of art he does, purely because it`s boring seeing the same thing over and over! It`s derivative! If he always featured naked men, or fountains of blood bursting out of every person`s orifices, I`d be labelling him the same "one-trick-pony". The problem is not the nude/topless women, it`s the fact that that is all he includes!

To imply, I`m calling him a "pervert" is ridiculous, and also irrelevant. He`s not being a pervert, or perverted in my view. (Maybe he is being that, in yours, in which case it doesn’t seem like I’m the one with a problem here, but you do?!) He`s being a one-trick-pony. Nothing more, nothing less. If anyone constantly produces the same piece of art/film/literature repeatedly, then they too would be one-trick-ponies. I have worded my comments carefully to avoid anyone trying to subvert them into meaning something that was never intended. Congratulations! You’ve managed to do just that, and then you want to blame me for your subversion!

You then say: "For all we know `Rick Melton` may be a black, gay, disabled refugee." Except he isn`t as his photo appears on his website, and he’s been featured in various magazine articles too, as a white, married man! But again, you are deliberately trying to distort my words, and trying to take inference from things, where no inference was intended or even implied. I think I`ve made it perfectly clear what my view is, but you want to twist it into the very thing it isn`t, to suit your own ends and means, so you can metaphorically bash me over the head with it. I could argue that the reason you are doing this, is either to take cheap pot-shots at me, or because your own defence of the issue at hand, is piss-poor. I’m just not entirely sure which!

And, yes, I do realise I`m not penning the Magna Carta here! Were you somehow confused into thinking I was?


@Glenn Quagmire [30263]: I don`t have a problem with nudity and naked women, (or naked or unclothed men for that matter), being included on any film cover. I have a problem with them always being included, because it`s boring, and repetitive, when that`s pretty much all that Rick Melton produces! I understand the exploitation angle, but you can exploit something, without being derivative, and pandering to the lowest common denominator all of the time. That`s really all I was saying. And, even though this wasn`t what you were suggesting, for what it`s worth, I don`t feel that INFERNO was an exploitation film. Hence, why I have such a problem with Mr Melton`s artwork. Unfortunately, my comments are being deliberately misinterpreted by Phantom, possibly because it`s me that`s making these comments in the first place.


@Sergio [30262]: The problem isn`t that sniffing feet is a sexual assault, per se. The problem, is that the feet being sniffed (and fondled) belonged to minors (under 18’s) who also happened to be school-pupils, and the person doing the sniffing, was a teacher in charge of those same pupils. Plus, the teacher was sniffing said feet of said pupils, for his own sexual kicks! So, yes, in this instance, and as far as the law is concerned, it is technically a sexual assault, even if no sex-act or penetration took place between the victim(s) and the criminal. At least, that’s my understanding of the situation, and with my limited knowledge of English Criminal Law.

 phantom    [30264.   Posted 1-Aug-2014 Fri 12:57]
Ah, the great liberal voice of America has finally found his stride.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-28591592

Obama wants a woman on a bank note. Wow? That`s it?
Why is it that liberalism is tokenism these days?

Blair and Cameron draped themselves in the rainbow colours of gay marriage while Obama (Mr Drone Strike and Internet Surveillance) now wants a person not possessed of a penis on currency.
You may recall that over here too some internet martyrs have been campaigning for women on bank notes. This is an important issue? While their imposing ever more proscriptive law and lock people up for diddlysquat?

Are the people really this superficial? Does anyone buy this?
Is there anything more irrelevant than whose face is on a bank note?
But nowadays this is the sort of vacuous piffle our leaders grant us as a great leap in liberal values. It`s pathetic.

As an irrelevant aside:
Whom do the BBC suggest? A woman who plagiarised the flag of the East India Company, a woman who didn`t get up in the bus and a woman who was the umpteenth person to fly across the Atlantic. Titans. :)
I`m not an American citizen. But I`d like to propose someone highly influential to be put on the folding money. Linda Lovelace. Go on, Mr Obama. Make my day.

 Glenn Quagmire    [30263.   Posted 1-Aug-2014 Fri 10:54]
Pooch [30261]

Personally I like the Arrow video covers. Very artistic. What you seem to be forgetting is that these films are exploitation films. Whether they have naked women in them or not is irrelevant. They`re exploitation films, Arrow specialises in exploitation films and the covers are just living up to that. Exploiting it so to speak.

 sergio    [30262.   Posted 1-Aug-2014 Fri 10:15]
Sniffing someone`s feet is sexual assault.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-28599417

 phantom    [30261.   Posted 1-Aug-2014 Fri 06:21]
Pooch [30260]
"I`m not going to apologise for my view. If that makes me sound judgemental, then so be it. I stand by everything I write, whether it be on my blog, or on a Forum. Anyone who has to consistantly resort to drawing images of naked or semi-naked women (or naked or semi-naked men for that matter) - and to be fair here, the vast majority of Rick Melton`s work is exactly that - then, yes, in my view, you clearly have limited talent. (Go look at his official website at..."

Wow. It appears I was wrong. You evidently are not better than that.

Aside from that post being incredibly pompous, it sounds oddly familiar.... For it is the type of rhetoric censorious people engage in to justify their bigoted output.

This individual, whatever his name is, is perfectly entitled to draw and publish whatever he likes. You may well not like it and you are entirely free to do so. So too may you say anything about him or his art you like.

But the manner and nature in which you do the latter will tell a great deal about you.
In this case you play the man, not the ball. You insinuate. You smear.

So what if he draws artwork you do not like?
Why does this make him a sad, lonely individual?
And pray, what is `a sad, lonely individual` to mean?

You are in effect not far off calling the man a pervert for drawing something you do not like. To all effect you are implying it pretty clearly.

I`ve seen this done again and again by those who like banning things. I despise it.

Before you start foaming at the mouth, claiming I wish to silence you; I do not have the slightest objection to you disliking the artwork and speaking your mind about it. I don`t mind you suggesting it shouldn`t be on the covers. I do object to your implying things about the artist, because you happen to dislike his output.

But I do not think you ought to be prevented from saying it. However, I feel it says a great deal that you should embrace the methods of those who like to slur by implication in order to make their point.

But go ahead, you `stand by everything you write`.
(You do realise you`re not penning the Magna Carta here, do you?)

For all we know `Rick Melton` may be a black, gay, disabled refugee.
So go ahead. Plant a seed. Call him names.
No doubt he deserves it - for drawing the `wrong` sort of material.

 Pooch    [30260.   Posted 31-Jul-2014 Thu 08:28]
@Sergio [30256]: I always liked the original Go Video / UK Video Nasties cover, with the cannibal chomping down on flesh. It wasn`t subtle, but at least it wasn`t trying to sexually titillate. And this one, from the Dutch (I think) DVD release...

http://www.movieposterdb.com/posters/05_09/1980/0078935/l_54384_0078935_c861f731.jpg

...is also eloquent, relevant, and subtle, but without resorting to cheap tits-and-ass imagery.


@Phantom [30257]: I`m not going to apologise for my view. If that makes me sound judgemental, then so be it. I stand by everything I write, whether it be on my blog, or on a Forum. Anyone who has to consistantly resort to drawing images of naked or semi-naked women (or naked or semi-naked men for that matter) - and to be fair here, the vast majority of Rick Melton`s work is exactly that - then, yes, in my view, you clearly have limited talent. (Go look at his official website at...

http://www.stunninglysavage.com

...and see how many images he has created featuring topless women, and you will see exactly what I mean!)

I`m not saying he has no talent at all. He clearly does have some talent, but the sad fact remains that the vast majority of Mr Melton`s work consists of nothing but tits-and-ass. It`s lazy. It`s crass. It`s childish. And it demonstrates to me, that this person has a limited imagination, because all they are doing is including the same thing, over-and-over-and-over-and-over again, ad infinitum! And yes, that makes Mr Melton the very definition of a one-trick-pony! I would even argue the same point in some other artist`s works, such as those of Boris Vallejo.

Could I do better? Absolutely not. But then, I`m not the one being paid to create artwork for DVD covers, but which most of what I offer are images of women in various states of undress, designed to arouse and titillate the minds of pre-teen boys!

Let`s look at this example:

http://www.iictokyo.esteri.it/IIC_LaValletta/webform/..%5C..%5CIICManager%5CUpload%5CIMG%5C%5CLaValletta%5C201403031054inferno%20di%20dario%20argento.jpg

This is the original, classic INFERNO poster we all know and love.

And this is what Rick Melton produced...

http://www.brutalashell.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Rick-Melton-Inferno.jpg

Here`s another example. This time, Lucio Fulci`s THE HOUSE BY THE CEMETERY. Here`s the original art...

http://www.dodaj.rs/f/K/b7/6jneKUK/the-house-by-the-cemeter.jpg

OR

http://www.cityonfire.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/91NJXjOo-qL._AA1500_.jpg

And here`s Rick`s "concept"...

http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/bizarre_eye/HBTCDVD.jpg

In just these two examples, he has deliberately focussed on the images of a naked or nearly-naked woman, and in both films, there`s little or no nudity actually in them. So, he`s effectively miss-selling the films, as some kind of tits-and-ass shockers, when both films aren`t actually that kind of film at all.

Want more? How about these then?

THE BIRD WITH THE CRYSTAL PLUMMAGE
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-MB1WnNB-hkc/Ua0BgRCfUDI/AAAAAAAAAGc/VnzAtgnerzM/s1600/91PT13qEcTL__AA1500_.jpg

MANIAC COP
http://cultcollectiveblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/dvd-art-arrow-video-manic-cop.jpg

SILENT NIGHT DEADLY NIGHT
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=wklsoi&s=7

TWO EVIL EYES
http://twitchfilm.com/assets/2010/10/FCD426_AV_TwoEvilEyes_DVD_vf.jpg

So, it`s not like I`m making this up! Why do this? If he has been given free reign to do as he likes, (which is what I suspect), then he`s chosen the wrong article to focus on, namely female nudity!

What does that say about the artist? Is it that they are lazy, because they can`t see anything beyond naked women in their art, and so have to incorporate such imagery in almost every piece of work they create, or is it that it`s easy to paint such things, and therefore it makes the artist`s life easier, or perhaps, it`s because he thinks it`s what the public wants?! Whatever the reasons, I don`t like it. Not because I`m prudish. Not because I`m offended, which I`m not. Nor because I find female nudity problematic - in art or films. No, I have a problem with it, because that`s all Mr Melton does - aim for the lowest common denominating factor, and pandering to the pre-teen boys who think that naked chicks make everything cool (ala BEAVIS AND BUTT-HEAD), with lazy art featuring nothing but naked women!

How sad a person must you be, to have to feel the need to include such an image in almost every single piece of work you create?!

This is why I have a problem with the artwork of Rick Melton! It`s cheap, tits-and-ass titillation that insults me, as an adult man with a brain!


@Braintree [30258]: Like you, I dislike most of the Arrow covers, not because they are Arrow films, but because they rarely represent the films in the best way possible. And, whilst it isn`t always Mr Melton who does Arrow`s covers, he does do a lot of them. Generally, though not always, his are the ones featuring naked or topless women on them!

There`s nothing wrong with focussing on sex and violence, but if that`s all you ever focus on, then that makes that person a rather tragic individual. And I would say the same thing, to a film director, if all of their works were nothing but sex and violence. There`s a time and a place for it, and such works can be great, but not all the time.

 phantom    [30259.   Posted 31-Jul-2014 Thu 05:08]
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-28562156

 braintree    [30258.   Posted 30-Jul-2014 Wed 12:59]
Pooch - I must admit I`ve never noticed whether Arrows alternative covers are just nudity because they always strike me instantly as being awful so I don`t really register what the content of the artwork is - I just dislike the style and whenever its available I always try to use the original video covers ( if there was one ) or what appears to be original poster artwork.
Is it really the same guy who does every single one of Arrows alternate covers? Arrow should use the funds on a more worthwhile extra . I do like alternate covers but I don`t see the need to commission new artwork for old films where there should be more than enough multiple posters or video covers already out there.

 phantom    [30257.   Posted 30-Jul-2014 Wed 11:13]
Pooch [30255]

"So what`s Mr Melton`s point for including unnecessary sexual imagery? It`s either:
1) Because Mr Melton doesn`t have enough talent to come up with artwork that doesn`t include a naked woman,
2) He`s been told to include such imagery to help sell the film he`s doing the artwork for,
3) He`s a sad, lonely individual, and this is the only thing he can draw."

Seriously?
Pooch, have you any inkling just how judgmental that makes you sound?
So someone does not possess sufficient talent, or more, is a sad, lonely individual, based on artwork which you think inappropriate?
Please, you`re better than that.

 sergio    [30256.   Posted 30-Jul-2014 Wed 08:54]
So, Pooch, what would you put on the cover of Cannibal Holocaust? Some animals being chopped up? A woman vomiting? I find the strange unequal equation of titillating covers and the gross real violence of animal slaughter rather odd.

 Pooch    [30255.   Posted 30-Jul-2014 Wed 05:47]
@Braintree [30247]: Thank You for your kind words, r.e. my CANNIBAL HOLOCAUST Blu-Ray review.

I have never been a member of VPRC, even if it might have seemed like I was. However, I do feel that the "sexist" alternate cover artwork by Rick Melton was unnecessary. Not because it included sexual imagery - I mean the outer-box artwork featuring the photo of the impaled woman is far more controversial and contentious - but that Mr Melton`s artwork is focusing solely on one part of the film, and that focus is always tits-and-ass. Which, as I say in my review, insults me as an adult man, and infers that I need a shot of a naked/topless woman/women to get me to watch or buy a particular film. It`s crass and childish.

It`s as if that`s Mr Melton`s sole raison d`etre. He just can`t do any artwork, without including a naked or partially-clothed woman in it. And that`s why I mention it in my review. It`s also why I reference Arrow`s INFERNO cover. A film in which, I don`t recall there being any nudity at all, from anyone female or male.

So what`s Mr Melton`s point for including unnecessary sexual imagery? It`s either:
1) Because Mr Melton doesn`t have enough talent to come up with artwork that doesn`t include a naked woman,
2) He`s been told to include such imagery to help sell the film he`s doing the artwork for,
3) He`s a sad, lonely individual, and this is the only thing he can draw.

I`d like to think Mr Melton isn`t the kind of person mentioned in 1 or 3 above, but the more work I see of his, the less I believe that 1 or 3 don`t actually apply.

If the film he`s doing artwork for, contains lots of sex or naked women, then maybe that may justify him including such scenes in his cover-artwork. And whilst CANNIBAL HOLOCAUST does include a lot of nudity, the vast majority of it is non-sexual. That is, it`s not been included to arouse, titillate, or "get male viewers off". Yes, there`s one sex scene in the film, and a rape sequence too, but female nudity is not generally the thing I first think of, when thinking of what imagery this film conjures up in my head.

It just feels like Mr Melton is a one-trick-pony, and this pony needs putting out to pasture, once-and-for-all. His artwork is cliched, derivative, dull, and irrelevant. In fact, I find most of his work embarrassing - the kind of work I`d expect from a pre-pubescent schoolboy! It`s hardly the kind of things you want your customers to be thinking of, when deciding whether to buy your product or not, is it?!

Anyway, I hope you "enjoy" the Blu-Ray, as it`s a really great release!

 sergio    [30254.   Posted 29-Jul-2014 Tue 13:15]
`Black masculinity in proximity to white women is often framed as a corrupting, defiling influence- due, in part, to age old racist and dehumanising depictions of black men. This is illustrated most graphically in mainstream porn.`

I must be immune to this stuff but I can`t remember any recent porn that has `racist and dehumanising depictions of black men` (note this article was written by a `feminist` so maybe they think all people in porn are `dehumanised`).

http://noisey.vice.com/en_uk/blog/tulisa-cocaine-scandal-the-sun

I found the BBC 3 doc on Tulisa riveting.

 Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30253.   Posted 29-Jul-2014 Tue 10:54]
Pooch, It looks like Victim wasn`t submitted for this latest release and used the last video cert which was 12. The cinema certificate is PG though and was passed a year later than the video

 Therumbler    [30252.   Posted 29-Jul-2014 Tue 10:28]
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3588/3341901662_998f5a0cfa_z.jpg?zz=1

10 years since "Ban these evil games".

 Pooch    [30251.   Posted 29-Jul-2014 Tue 06:13]
@MelonFarmers (Dave) - On your "Shopping List: Recent Releases" page, you have VICTIM listed as being passed uncut at 18, though the cover of the Blu-Ray suggests it`s been passed uncut at 12. Are you able to confirm, it is indeed a 12 (or possibly a 15)?

 braintree    [30250.   Posted 28-Jul-2014 Mon 14:10]
And with todays findings about Clarkson and his use of the term "slope" its reached the point where somebody needs to get the investigators investigated. These silly regulatory organisations like the BBFC and Ofcom are supposed to follow public opinion and change things accordingly . Ofcom wastes time and money because 2 people complained about slope . Which means that several million others really couldn`t give a shit so why are Ofcom wasting time and money on these whingers ? There should be a limit of a certain number of complaints . Investigating programmes viewed by several million that result in complaints by one or two people is ridiculous and those in authority should step in and cut Ofcom budgets as they clearly have far too much time on their hands and need curtailing

 phantom    [30249.   Posted 28-Jul-2014 Mon 05:22]
re: Aids: Don`t Die of Prejudice...

I`ll be the first to say that I couldn`t stand Norman Fowler when he was part of the Tory government. When chairman of the Conservatives he seemed one of the chief political sycophants of his day. Some of his utterances were cringe inducing.

But credit where credit is due. On Aids the man has been a paragon. It was he who pushed through the famous national Aids ad campaign to inform the nation of the dangers of the epidemic. For a Tory politician to invest political capital into a campaign on matters sexual in that day and age was a phenomenal leap.

Today still, now Lord Fowler, he seems one of the few men in Westminster to engage his brain when it comes to sex, drugs and Aids.

I doubt I would see eye to eye on much with this arch Tory and his family values but I`ll gladly concede that I feel a huge respect for that man.
He overcame his own prejudices and moral preconceptions for the sake of the public good and since he`s tirelessly been campaigning on keeping up public awareness on this subject. One weeps at what kind of a reception he must get with his fellow Tories for being so outspoken on sexual and drug issues.

But once in a while it`s worth posting a message which doesn`t bemoan the way of the world, highlighting only the negative.

So I`d just like to say that in my book Lord Fowler is one of the good guys. More strength to his elbow.

 phantom    [30248.   Posted 28-Jul-2014 Mon 04:56]
braintree {30247}
For the state of affairs on whinge-ism just check out the story on here regarding the series `Outnumbered`. One complainant regarding one fairly innocuous comment on autism and they get hammered and told not to slip up again.

Has anyone on here noticed how sitcom has died a death in this country?
Sitcom writing is a much more substantial craft than writing jokes for stand-up comics and panel shows. How is it that the nation which produced Fawlty Towers, Only Fools and Horses, Porridge, Dad`s Army and many more is now producing next to nothing in terms of sitcom?
Well, just look what happened to `Outnumbered` and you have your answer.

I`ll bet money our best comedy script writers are in the US penning material for the likes of `The Big Bang Theory`. Thus they are over there earning money for Yank productions on the international television market, when that cultural output and money could be ours.

Handing the power to censure and curb program making with so few complaints leads only to loss of programming and loss of income to the nation.

Let`s face it, would you put serious effort and finance into a big comedy project if Mrs Smith from number eleven can shoot it down with one complaint?

Whinge-ism has a cost. There will be no more quality sitcom from this country as long as we pander to to such pettiness.
Britain will therefore not be known abroad for its self-proclaimed `unique sense of humour` for the foreseeable future. Panel shows don`t travel, sitcoms do. Humour is now - (oh, irony of ironies) - American!

 braintree    [30247.   Posted 27-Jul-2014 Sun 13:59]
I`ve been putting off getting the Grindhouse Blu of Cannibal Holocaust for a while but Pooch`s review convinced me to get one now . Although it did seem odd that Pooch may have been a member of the Video Packaging Review Committee (remember them?) when complaining that covers for this film and similar titles from Arrow might be "sexist". Of all things problematic with Cannibal Holocaust releases a "sexist" cover is surely the least of its worries.
Of all the "isms" that`s the one I take with a pinch of salt . Men and Women really are different but it seems you`re not allowed to mention that these days . God forbid we mention the reality that women are usually physically weaker than men hence the recent comment from a soccer pundit that a player kicked like a girl . That the subsequent uproar of complainers were not told to simply piss off is another bizarre story from the PC police notebook.
It`s high time broadcasters were able to tell complainers to get a life instead of apologising for every imaginary transgression. How about standing up for your staff instead of pandering to whingers?

 phantom    [30246.   Posted 27-Jul-2014 Sun 12:15]
If I recall, Pooch, Messrs Martin Salter and David Lepper made a lot of hay out of `Cannibal Holocaust` by referring to it (though not by name) in their contributions to the debate in the Commons, when pressing for the introduction of `Extreme Pornography`.

I recall one of them, if not both, everlastingly referring to `snuff material made in Guatemala`. Everyone with a brain concluded that they meant Cannibal Holocaust and could not quite comprehend what this had to do with the parliamentary bill in question.

It is significant as Salter and Lepper were two of the driving forces behind that particular legislation.

Thus to what extent Cannibal Holocaust may or may not have contributed to the introduction of what we here dub the `Dangerous Pictures Act` we will never know. But no doubt Messrs Salter and Lepper will have been dwelling on it for a reason.

And when MPs were shown examples of the sort of stuff one wanted banned (which I believe some were), I would not at all be surprised if some of the imagery of Deodato`s material will have been sneaked in for good measure.

Not that `Cannibal Holocaust` ever had anything to do with what is actually `extreme porn`. But it says something about the power of the imagery of that film that MPs should fall back on it as an argument for a porn ban.

 braintree    [30245.   Posted 26-Jul-2014 Sat 14:21]
The media and authorities seem too stupid to realise that their obsession with convincing us there is a paedophile on every corner does little except bring the subject to the attention of an awful lot of curious people who really would not have bothered had it not been for the constant media circus. I`m sure over the next few years the small number of these people who then committ other crimes will find themselves in deeper trouble once their computers are seized. Those who make money from paedophiles must be loving the UK who provide them with a level of publicity money could never buy.

Likewise with extreme porn . Has anyone arrested or convicted of possession of extreme porn actually been investigated for that crime initially ? From what I`ve read it`s always other matters but routine checking of computers / phones etc then leads to these other charges.

Why doesn`t someone in authority stand up in court or the House of Commons and ask what makes the British public so uniquely idiotic. Why don`t these MP`s go on one of their paid jollies to countries like Holland or Denmark to see why they have had decades of easy access to this type of material yet their country hasn`t sunk into the violent sexual country wide orgy that the rule makers use as excuses over here . Do other countries have the same type of moronic tabloid press that we have here ? Maybe decades of exposure to crap like The Daily Mail and the News of the World are the reason so many people in this country seem to be gullible fools. A good reason to ban them but it doesn`t suit the current Government agenda

 Harvey    [30244.   Posted 26-Jul-2014 Sat 13:02]
freeworld [30239]

I would pretty much agree with where you draw the line as to what should and shouldn`t be restricted speech.

If we can wrap slander/libel inside the general guise of defamation then there`s a justification for restricting such speech. So no real problem with civil actions for damages. The problem with defamation law as it stands is that the sheer cost of defending oneself against an action for defamation can (still) be seen as a covert mechanism for censorship for people who are wealthy enough to use the law. I would actually favour the creation of a criminal offence where defamation is wilful or malicious so that the state takes responsibility of prosecuting cases.

I`m not so sure that a merely possessing a photograph of anything should be prohibited, but I would agree that creating, distributing or publishing pornographic (rather than simply indecent) images of children should be a criminal offence.

The Public Order Act has already been amended to allow the use of insulting, rather than threatening words.

 freeworld    [30243.   Posted 26-Jul-2014 Sat 11:48]
phantom {30242. Posted 26-Jul-2014 Sat 11:28}

In some fields of the law we are getting perilously close to a standard of accusation = guilt. Where fantasies and lies are sagely believed by "the authorities" for ideological reasons, not to further the ends of justice, objective truth replaced by subjective "feeling". The pressure groups - often made up of fanatics - are probably more influential over the law than they have ever been in the modern era. In any alliance with the press/broadcast media, their control over the political class can be well nigh irresistible to them. The fanatics squawk a lot and loudly and soon a new law (or procedure) - often badly thought out rubbish - is rolling down legislation alley. And what the fanatics want is more laws, more controls, special privileges for X, and often more and worse punishment of others to gratify their own sanctimony about their hobby horses. The late Auberon Waugh, often thought of as simply a right winger, had their number when he called this tendency "punishment freaks" years ago. They are the modern equivalent of the medieval person who saw the whole of the world surrounded by malign invisible demons, who, with their human allies, must be fought every day, by burning the latter alive quite often. To the feminist extremist all men are rapists who just haven`t been caught yet, just as it was quite common in earlier generations to assume the fantasy all homosexuals were paedos was true.

 phantom    [30242.   Posted 26-Jul-2014 Sat 11:28]
freeworld [30241]

I will grant you that I too feel a certain unease about the Harris case, but again I wasn`t really referring to any particular case when speaking of the hatred shown towards paedophiles.

What worries me is that politicians and media have established them as a sort of short hand for `evil`. They are thus not far removed from the `Untermensch` which the Germans dubbed the Jews and Slavs back in their day.

This to me seems very, very dubious. Paedophilia is indeed a problem. But this level of demonisation is concerning. After all, is it ever healthy for a country`s elite to be fostering public hatred toward any group?

How nasty would one be willing to become in exploiting this hatred, should it become politically convenient?

Thus by default, to my mind any political system which indulges in such matters is highly suspect.

 freeworld    [30241.   Posted 26-Jul-2014 Sat 11:07]
phantom {30240. Posted 26-Jul-2014 Sat 10:42}

Someone who tries saying - "look at the pathetic standard of the "evidence" used to lock away Rolf Harris for years", or expresses some doubts that some of the hundreds of allegation about Savile might not be actually true - will then see the "you must be one too" accusations roll in. One well understands the way anyone who stated principled doubts in the seventeenth century about the claims that so and so is a witch (or that witches even existed) quickly got accused of being in league with Old Nick as well.

Hysteria is never healthy and leads to all kinds of miscarriages of justice.

The justifications for censorship change, or some become more influential than others over time, but the consequences are the same. In Britain it was once "religion" then "public decency. Now it`s mainly "for the children"/"to protect women"/some "minority" from exploitation - the latter having become "victims", unable to look after themselves and their interests and therefore in need of special protections from the all wise, control it all state and its laws - a more dark age, patronizing idea, is hard to think of.

The idea that freedom is just too much, actually spiritually bad for us, that we shouldn`t be have it, needing repression/totalitarianism, with somebody or organization in control of us, is brilliantly covered by Dostoyevsky in the story of the Grand Inquisitor in "The brothers Karamazov".

 phantom    [30240.   Posted 26-Jul-2014 Sat 10:42]
Harvey {30236}

"I think part of the problem is using the term "free speech" as if there is a universal, unqualified right to say or publish and that any restriction is a denial of that right.
Unless you belive there should be an unqualifed right to free expression, where do you draw the line between what is a violation and what is legitimate restriction?
It`s fairly obvious that the maintream media in the UK will draw the line broadly where UK law does, so you will see China, etc reported critically when their citizens are denied the right to say or publish something which would be legal in the UK.
So it`s not so much that they exhibit double standards in their reporting as much as that they use the wrong standard (the letter of the UK law) to define what is and isn`t a "violation of the right to free speech"."

I hear what you say.
It usually boils down to the fact that freedoms are greater here than in China or Pakistan, so what is the problem?
But freedoms are also much greater in the Netherlands or the US than they are here.
So this relativism cuts both ways.

What is appalling is that the media`s comparison is only ever made one way.
And whilst Pakistan or China may be censorial in more profound areas, they do at least not hold themselves to be paragons of liberty and democracy as this country does.

Whereas the subtext here is always the same: be grateful that you live in the queen of all nations, Great Britain, and not in that dump without sewers where they lock people up for political dissent...

The simple truth is that liberty has stood still in the last twenty years in this country. Can you point me to any freedom which has substantially improved in law?
And please spare me the mention of homosexuality. Yes, there have been some much trumpeted advances there, but to the exclusion of all else.
Individual liberty in this nation has only been reduced. `Gay rights` have been used as a fig leaf by autocrats bent on squeezing the life out of this nation`s ancient liberties.

Can the same be said about Pakistan and China? Chances are, for all their problems, they are still actually advancing on the trajectory toward greater enfranchisement - not reversing.

It is not as though we had achieved some state of perfection a quarter of a century ago, which has now suffered some reverses. No, it is far more that we are heading backwards across the board, simply because the ruling establishment finds it more convenient.

In the name of fighting paedophiles, terrorists or organised crime, etc we are seeing the state erode away ever more of what had been amounted over a great length of time.

What we all took to be a continuous evolution toward liberty has been first subverted with the tyranny of political correctness and then consciously dismantled by autocratic politicians.

I do not think that people are even aware of it happening. And those who are may well believe that these setbacks can be easily reversed, not realising how hard won they were to start with.

Freedom is now only abused by Abu Hamza and Abu Qatada... or it serves to `let off` suspected paedophiles, rapists and the likes....
Thus to extinguish some of its `excesses` is merely to serve justice.

Meanwhile, the country seems to have been consumed by a cancer of hatred. First of all among the targets rank paedophiles which are now suffering a state of state sponsored persecution which borders on the demonisation of the Jews in 1930s Germany. Hatred is being purposely incited and channelled. When states do that everyone has reason to be worried.

I understand censorship of all kinds merely as an extension of the conscious denial of justice. It is symptomatic of a regime which denies its people liberty. Censorship in this country has by now become endemic. What once was the denial of the principles of freedom around areas of pornography, has long since become a tool to curb some forms of expression, both political and religious, and `catch-all` legislation which almost guarantees the authorities that an arrested suspect will be found guilty eventually of `something`.

This is happening. Here. But the media tell us about outrages in Pakistan or China, or Indonesia, or Uganda.
All the while the terrifying, soul destroying trend happening under our very noses goes virtually unreported.

Mine is thus not some semantic objection about where any line is drawn, but a despair at seeing the line continuously moving - backwards, from where it once came.

Just like the members of the Readers and Listeners Association once bewailed the evils of the 1960s and its great liberalising effect on popular culture, so now to the denizens of power hate the past achievements which granted us greater individual rights and seek to dismantle them.

We live in exceedingly troubling times.

 freeworld    [30239.   Posted 26-Jul-2014 Sat 09:57]
Harvey {30236. Posted 26-Jul-2014 Sat 01:30}
As far as it involves what people can say/write/possess -basically my belief is it should be drawn over -

1.Slander/libel of an individual (not merely insult) ie "X is a paedo/murderer/plagiarist" etc.

2.Advocacy of physical violence against individuals/groups (this would encompass inciting terrorism).

3.Possession/publishing images of real children being really abused/advocating children should be abused.

4.No laws over people generally verbally abusing each other,however nasty, unless it can be classed as amounting to harassment/libel/slander.

A return to the not that distant days before the existence of "hate speech" crimes. No censorship or prosecuting individuals over expressing unfashionable/outrageous opinions eg holocaust "denial" (a historical fact, an idea - whatever, should not, as some seem to think, need to be specially protected by severe criminal laws and censorship - is a truth, a belief etc so delicate it can`t fight for itself)

 freeworld    [30238.   Posted 26-Jul-2014 Sat 09:31]
phantom {30234. Posted 25-Jul-2014 Fri 13:08}

The hypocrisy of our home grown political stalwarts of free expression and liberalism (sarcasm!) over the Russian "Pussy riot" affair was sick making.

Harvey {30231. Posted 25-Jul-2014 Fri 02:08}

If you look again at what I wrote previously, I didn`t say the dispersal order was under "Labour`s blasphemy law". But Weston was subject to an arrest involving the "new blasphemy law". The details are discussed further on. Whether Weston was actually formally charged subsequent to his arrest is unclear from what I`ve seen (you can be placed under arrest for a period without being actually charged - 24/36 hours max in most cases). Saying charges were dropped, even when only an arrest and no charges had actually been made, may be technically inaccurate, but it`s a fairly common way of describing the process.

The initial arrest -

The police themselves said in a statement -

`(a).. dispersal order was issued following complaints from members of the public about the man`s behaviour."

The BBC news site says -

"..he failed to comply with a section 27 dispersal order."

"He was detained after failing to comply with a request by police to move on under the powers of a dispersal order."

In an interview Weston himself said he was being arrested for a breach of a "section 27 dispersal notice".

In a letter sent to him the police state that Weston`s initial arrest was over a breach of a section 27.

Like you, I can`t see how on earth such a section 27 "dispersal order" can be applied in a situation like this one.

The BBC news report says -

"He was detained after failing to comply with a request by police to move on under the powers of a dispersal order."

"A Hampshire police spokesman said: “A 50-year-old man from Dorset was arrested outside Winchester Guildhall at approximately 2.30pm on Saturday April 26 after he failed to comply with a section 27 dispersal order."

- Telegraph report

Section 27 of the violent crime reduction act seems to only relate to alcohol related disorder -

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/section/27

So, one important question is, if that`s the case, was Weston actually wrongly initially arrested/detained for "breaching" a dispersal order issued wrongly in the first place by the police? The police statement above says he was first arrested after he failed to comply with the - incorrectly applied - dispersal order, not over the the POA.

As to POA section 4 A - a legal authority to arrest and possibly charge, prosecute and punish someone over just about anything some person might take objection to - it`s an appalling totalitarian tool for repression/censorship by the state`s creatures.

The arrest and "religious hate" issue -

The police themselves state that Mr Weston -

"...was further arrested on suspicion of religious racial harassment"

The police quote/ given reasons for re-arrest appear in a number of places, not just the Mail.

The account on the online BBC site says -

"He was further arrested on suspicion of religious or racial harassment."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-27186573

In a letter sent to Weston, the Hampshire police stated the arrest was due to -

“ .. an allegation of a breach of a S27 dispersal notice and a Racial/Religious Aggravated Section 4 Public Order Offence."

So, specific mention is made by the police themselves and numerous other sources of that religious reason for re-arrest; we are thus lead to "Labour`s blasphemy law", nailed into the POA as 3A in 2006 ( yours truly, not the Mail, is the one pointing out that that it`s Labour`s law!). It`s useful here to also say that Weston was only talking about a religion, not a race (you do not, of course, have to be a member of a particular racial or national group to be a Muslim). More on that later.

According to the police Weston`s "re-arrest" was, partly at least, over POA 4, the 2006 section 3A addition to it - viz "Religious Aggravated" (see above). Without this they would not have had at least half of the grounds they are themselves quoted as saying they had for Weston`s re-arrest over an alleged "Racial/Religious" public order offense.

The POA and religious hatred -

I`ll now say a little more regarding issues raised in your post about the POA, specifically those religious hatred additions to it.

Nothing in Weston`s speech at issue is stirring up/threatening/abusing on the basis of race - so that`s a non starter - it should never have been used as any part of a justification for arresting him. So, we come to the other (police) given justification for Mr Weston`s POA arrest - religion. They would have thought again about bringing forward charges against Weston based in breaches to legislation`s religious hatred definitions - because what he said was entirely within the law. It might have been very different if the Blair government had had their way, which they nearly did. The present wording of the legislation added to the POA from 2006, is a long way from what came out of the government. It was significantly amended to protect free speech by others - in the house of Lords, before it became a law and a part of the POA. The abusive, insulting stuff, applicable in other areas of the POA, was jettisoned by the Lords for any charges being made on a "religious hate" basis - to be prosecutable, conduct must be defined as "threatening".

" It creates new offences of stirring up religious hatred, which are significantly different from the race hate offences contained within Part III of the Public Order Act 1986."

"Threatening is the operative word, not abusive or insulting"

- CPS guidance to the POA amended law covering religious hatred.

Further there has to be an intent to stir up hatred, not just a possibility that this might take place as a result. The Lords also inserted the paragraph I quoted in the earlier post, section 29J - putting in concrete terms what was not to be considered a breach of the law -

"29J Protection of freedom of expression
Nothing in this Part shall be read or given effect in a way which prohibits or restricts discussion, criticism or expressions of antipathy, dislike, ridicule, insult or abuse of particular religions or the beliefs or practices of their adherents, or of any other belief system or the beliefs or practices of its adherents, or proselytizing or urging adherents of a different religion or belief system to cease practicing their religion or belief system".

The Labour government tried its hardest to have those free speech protection amendments overturned. In the attempt to get rid of them in the commons they were defeated (on a knife edge - by one vote). A number of Labour MPs themselves rebelled. The matter is reported here -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4664398.stm

Of the Lord`s amendment, Dr.Evan Harris (a notable DPA foe), the then Liberal Democrat human rights spokesman, stated -

"The government just failed to understand that they can`t take liberties with freedom of expression. This has showed tonight that we will stand up for freedom of expression."

Our old friend the late Mr Goggins was involved as home office minister in the failed commons maneuvers to rid the legislation of the Lord`s amendments to protect free speech. So, to adapt what you said about the Tories - that`s Labour law for you. But, I can assure you I hold no brief for the Conservatives -the introducers of default internet censorship filters (lobbied for enthusiastically by Labour before Cameron gave in to it), cheerers on of the (Labour) Digital economy act, zealous champions (along with Labour) of the "snooper`s charter", the government which hasn`t liberalized but extended Labour`s DPA, and in the past, creators of much of the current POA, including the later amendment which stands as section 4A, that notorious arrest anyone for just about anything clause (they`ve recently made what seems a pretty meaningless change to the POA itself by ditching "insulting" from it`s definitions- in this context, what`s the material difference between "insulting" and "abusing"?).

In the teeth of the same government opposition, former Tory home secretary Lord (David)Waddington had amendments to protect free expression successfully added to legislation when Labour was putting "hatred" on the grounds of sexual orientation into the POA (2008 - that Straw justice ministry bill which delivered the DPA).

Free speech protections which apply to religion do not apply to race in the POA 1986. So, if Mr Weston had actually been speaking about race, instead of just religion (where freedom of speech has those exemptions clearly written into the legislation - no thanks to New Labour), it might have been more likely that he would have faced prosecution. Yet the police seem to have thrown arrest grounds of racial hatred at him without there being any material in his religion dominated speech to justify such a claim. Instead of "prosecution" Weston "just" suffered through a short period of unpleasant "persecution" for daring to express certain opinions in public.

I can`t see how the story in the Mail seriously misrepresents what occurred.

What may well be the case is that the police`s given grounds for the initial arrest were a serious misapplication of the dispersal notice law. Further, the re-arrest over "Racial/ Religious" harassment was unjustified, and rightly the matter has been taken no further.

I must keep away from this excellent site - it does get me depressed about the totalitarian nightmare the country is being led into by the professional political class.

 Pooch    [30237.   Posted 26-Jul-2014 Sat 05:47]
@Dave [30233] - In regards to my Monty Python post, yes, feel free to post it on the main site if you wish. I don`t have a problem with that at all. :)

THE PENIS SONG lyrics are well-known, but go as follows:
"Here`s a little number I tossed-off recently in the Caribbean
Isn`t it awfully nice to own a penis
Isn`t it frightfully good to have a dong
It`s swell to have a stiffy
It`s divine to own a dick
From the tiniest little tadger, to the world`s biggest prick
So three-cheers for your willy or John Thomas
Hooray for your one-eyed trouser snake
Your piece-of-pork, your wife`s-best-friend, your percy or your cock
You can wrap it up in ribbons
You can slip-it in your sock
But don`t take it out in public, or they will stick you in the dock
And you won`t a`come a`back!"

But the two additional verses (which premiered at the O2 Live shows) are as follows:
"It`s fun to own your own vagina
It`s great to have your friendly thatch
Your minge, your twat, your kitty cat
Your nest, your nasty or your snatch
It`s great to have a monkey furrow
Your finger pie, your lunchbox, or your catch
Your camel toe, your bearded clam
Your bottom at the front
Your monkey minge, your muffin or your old Sir Berkely Hunt
Your honeypot, your hairy friend
But never call it c**t
Or we won`t be coming back"

The third verse, goes:
"Isn`t it awfully nice to own a bottom
Isn`t it frightfully good to have an ass
It`s swell to own a tuschy
It`s diving to own a scut
From the skinniest little buttocks
To the world`s largest butt
Three cheers for your posterior or anus
Hooray for your lovely sit-upon
Your fundament, your fanny, your cheeky little dear
Your rump, your haunch, your hams, your stern, your fanny or your rear
But be careful how you handle it, or you`ll be caught, I fear
And you won`t come back"

As you can see, no channel could have got away with all of the above, at 7:30pm on a Sunday evening, either being sung by a chorus line, and with the words on-screen in clear-view to everyone in the audience! (Thanks to "Biancholy" who posted the screen-caps as evidence at:

http://imgur.com/a/ZOwIt

Finally, Gavin Salkeld`s CUTTING EDGE - EPISODE 7 that deals with TERMINATOR 2 has been banned from YouTube with the note "This video contains content from Studio Canal and Lionsgate, one or more of whom have blocked it on copyright grounds." appended to it! See...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y588LXWdUI

... for the notes. It seems even using clips under "fair use" limitations as per S107 in the US Copyright Act is no longer acceptable to Studio Canal/Lionsgate!

 Harvey    [30236.   Posted 26-Jul-2014 Sat 01:30]
phantom, MF Dave,

I think part of the problem is using the term "free speech" as if there is a universal, unqualified right to say or publish and that any restriction is a denial of that right.

Unless you belive there should be an unqualifed right to free expression, where do you draw the line between what is a violation and what is legitimate restriction?

It`s fairly obvious that the maintream media in the UK will draw the line broadly where UK law does, so you will see China, etc reported critically when their citizens are denied the right to say or publish something which would be legal in the UK.

So it`s not so much that they exhibit double standards in their reporting as much as that they use the wrong standard (the letter of the UK law) to define what is and isn`t a "violation of the right to free speech".

Then of course we have the Daily Mail...

 Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30235.   Posted 25-Jul-2014 Fri 16:33]
Phantom

Along the vague theme I haven`t yet spotted a story from the Daily Mail mentioning the low take up up options for ISP internet blocking.

Also I bet more people have been jailed for internet free speech violations in the UK than China if the size of the population is factored in.

 phantom    [30234.   Posted 25-Jul-2014 Fri 13:08]
Harvey {30231}
freeworld [30230]

My objection is not to any specific case, but the British media approach in general, whereby they point the finger at things which are rightfully appalling in other countries, but somehow always omit to ever include any pieces in their programming which would point to such failings in this, their own country.

It helps to create a national sense of superiority and encourages complacency.

It`s message being, `Sleep easy, Britannia. Everything`s alright.`

 Melon Farmers (Dave)    [30233.   Posted 25-Jul-2014 Fri 09:30]
Thanks Pooch, great stuff. Do you mind if I repost it on the main MF site? I am sure it would be of interest to many readers. I think there`s a good headline along the lines of How to kill a dead parrot.

 Pooch    [30232.   Posted 25-Jul-2014 Fri 06:01]
@Dave [30223] and Phantom [30222]. I attended one of the MONTY PYTHON O2 screenings at a local cinema, and in the case of GOLD censoring the 7:30pm broadcast, there were two issues at play here.

Firstly, no one at GOLD was intelligent enough to realise that there wasn`t a cat-in-hell`s-chance of this live show being PG-friendly, for a Sunday evening broadcast! If they did, then they were being extremely naive. As such, no channel could have broadcast the show live at that time of day, on any channel, unless there had been an enforced PIN-locked restriction.

The heavy cuts in the first half of the show, related to THE PENIS SONG (NOT THE NOEL COWARD SONG), and the following two additional, never-before-seen verses, that talk about owning a vagina and an arsehole. As per the Penis Song lyrics, the Pythons used every available term to describe such parts of the body, and on-screen lyrics were visible on the huge screen behind the singers/dancers, including the infamous c-word.

So, to be fair to GOLD, they had no choice to censor it, but they should have been aware that none of this was ever going to be remotely suitable for family viewing, in the first place. Why they didn`t just time-delay everything, and then air it, starting from 9pm onwards, I don`t know? No one would have complained if they`d done that!

Secondly, in the second half, there was a potentially libellous set of jokes about Paul Dacre, the Daily Mail editor, and his paper`s bad review of the MONTY PYTHON LIVE show. I`m not sure if the jokes were left in for the post-watershed repeat on Tuesday night (and again tonight - Friday 25th July), but GOLD didn`t want to risk his wrath on their little channel. Hence, more censorship and editing of that sequence was needed.

Ultimately, whilst the censorship was ridiculous, and ridiculously horrible (the screetchy bleep tone they used was horrific), GOLD really should have known better! They`d already had 9 previous performances to check on the suitability, but were determined to go for ratings, rather than time-delays, and thus opted to air it live, but heavily censor the show, based on a script they had - something that heavily backfired on them, going from the numerous complaints on their Facebook page.

Lastly, the other thing that annoyed people, was the fact that GOLD could have, and maybe should have, announced that their Live transmission wasn`t going to be complete-and-uninterrupted - either because of censorship or because of over-runs. The show ran 15 minutes later than advertised, and I believe that GOLD ended their Live transmission early, during the PARROT SKETCH, just to stay on schedule! If fans had known beforehand, and had been primed that two uncut repeats were planned, then fans would probably have cut GOLD a lot more slack. But no one said anything. And as such, GOLD has been rightly pilloried.

Definitely one of TV`s messiest "Live" showings ever produced, and one that will go down infamously in TV history of how NOT to air something live on TV!

P.S. For what it`s worth, the uncut Live show itself was fab!

 Harvey    [30231.   Posted 25-Jul-2014 Fri 02:08]
freeworld [30230]

"The charges were later dropped"

Well, there weren`t any charges to drop. Weston was informed that the police weren`t taking any further action regarding his failing to comply with a dispersal order under "Labour`s blasphemy law". That might be because of the freedom of expression clause containined in the 2006 Act, but that would be the Racial and Religious Hated Act 2006? It`s much more likely because the police didn`t exectute the section 27 dispersal order properly - it should be given in writing and that it wasn`t relevant to Weston`s behaviour. The s.27 order is provision of the Violent Crime and Disorder Act 2006 and gives police the powers of dispersal to deal with alcohol related crime or disorder. i.e. nothing to to with preaching racial or religious hatred even if that is what Weston was thought to be doing.

He says he was instead de-arrested and then re-arrested at the police station on suspicion of having committed a racially aggravated offence under section 4 of the Public Order Act.

The Public Order Act 1986 is a Tory law. Sections 4, 4A and 5 being the `go to` offences for any behaviour in public which the police feel like putting a stop to. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/64/section/4

If Weston`s account is correct, he was NOT arrested or re-arrested on suspicion of racial or religious harrasment, which is what the DM article claims. It`s true that anyone convicted of a s.4 offence which is motivated by racial or religious hatred stands to be given a more severe sentence, but the s.4 offence is Tory legislation. In the Tory law, you can be convicted for using "threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour". There is no exception providing for free expression, but that`s Tory laws for you.

The Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006 intoduced new offences of stiring up racial and religious hatred by amending the Public Order Act. If that was what Weston was being accused of he`d be charged with an offence under s.18. If he had been, you could justifiably claim that this was a use of Labour`s blasphemy law, but he wasn`t, so you can`t. However much the Daily Mail, and hangers-on would like to think it so. The DM article is so misrepresentative of the actiual facts of the case, you`d have to think the misrepresentation was deliberate, rather than just ignorance.

A better summary of the facts of this incident are:

1) Police misuse and then misapply the powers of a section 27 dispersal order.
2) Police arrest and detain a person for not complying with the order.
3) Police realise their mistake and use the catch-all provisions of s.4 of the Public Order Act to justify arresting said person.

All very nasty, especially when said person is a candidate in an election, but absolutely nothing to do with the Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006, however hard the DM tries to shoe-horn it into the story.