See also Religious Watch Forum

axis45    [27022.   Posted 17-Jul-2010 Sat 17:30] View Near Messages
Re: The Raoul Moat Facebook contoversy:27021.

We in the UK are often accustomed to thinking as ourselves as quite an advanced society,sure enough we almost invented the modern world and more than punch above our weight in our contributions to science,art,literature and technology.

Surprisingly though i think that in terms of our general understanding of democracy and human rights and other related concepts we collectively resemble a bunch of retarded baboons.

At odd times something will happen or be observed that draws attention to this fact.For example i was watching an episode of Question Time on the BBC last year where they were discussing something in the news where a child had been beaten by their parents,i cant remember the exact story but i was struck by the divide between english politicians/celebs on the panel and the others [i remember one guy being from ireland and others being from outside the uk]For the non english panelists there was a clear moral line and none of them hesitated in articulating that it was wrong to beat a child even under difficult and challenging circumstances.This was in mark contrast to the english panelists who each had great difficulty in deciphering where the right and the wrong lay,theres was much mealy mouthed double speak and even those who offered a degree of condemnation,their language was couched in caveats and a kind of duality and confusion.

I digress of course but my point is that when you look at any news story in the uk you have to do it thru the prism of the "english disease" or neurosis that for whatever reason is unable to grasp the concept of basic rights and their consequences.

The Raoul Moat story is interesting for a number of reasons,his [alleged] judicial execution which is now the defacto accepted standard in the UK as in the US for any one deemed to be a dangerous criminal by the authorities and is kicking off.And many,perhaps even a majority support this policy.Yes people want to see these lawbreakers killed,murdered,executed whatever,it has widespread support and the police are [allegedly] willing to do it.

Much of the media collude to paint the picture of those who break the law as deviant,dangerous and using all methods of subliminal programming to portray criminals as sub human even animals.Remember the ad about car thieves portraying hyenas breaking into cars,the inferences are clear,dangerous,wild animals,not human.Very much a direct parallel can be drawn between ads like that and Goebbels infamous nazi propaganda films potraying the jewish race as rats.

Goebbels would have hated the internet too as much as the propagandists of our age,with its uncanny knack of exposing hypocrisy and going decidedly off message.So it was the Facebook campaign that struck a sour note for our tabloids.The howls of derision came thick and fast with not surprisingly a lot of time and resources used to discredit those behind the campaign.

Of course i dont support Moat but as politicians will tell you its not so much what you do more the message you send out that matters.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-10672400

Contrast the french reaction.They fucking rioted when a copper had the gall to shoot an armed robber.

Vive la France !!

axis45    [26585.   Posted 11-Mar-2010 Thu 01:02] View Near Messages
Re filth on the tv

Yes cor and the schedules are full of these "friendly face of policing" so called documentaries,its a propaganda blitz that even a major corporation would struggle to fund.

And as the guy on the youtube contribution said,these programmes are being use to push policy,showing nasty criminals getting caught by cctv or by dna identification.Repeatedly giving out the subliminal message that controversial and maybe repressive methods are neccesary and work.All the bits showing the darker aspects like police brutality or persecution of ordinary joes on the flimsiest of evidence never see the light of day or left on the cutting room floor.Or the fact that the continual creep of ever expanding police powers makes people feel afraid and intimidated in their everyday lives.

I have an idea for a documentary,its called "the police ruined my life" a fly on the wall series of interviews with ordinary people.I wonder if i will get home office funding...?

axis45    [26582.   Posted 10-Mar-2010 Wed 17:21] View Near Messages
Filth on tv

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM9glhaYOXY&feature=related

Interesting contribution on youtube showing how taxpayers money is being used to promote the police and community support officers and sell what they do to the public.

Notice the explosion of fly on the wall style documentries,traffic cops,beat-life on the streets,cops with cameras [on tonite] to name but a few who air an uncritical look at aspects of modern policing.

In particular The Beat -life on the streets which is an ad funded programme by the taxpayer parading as a normal documentary.It is not,it is part of a heavily funded major ad campaign run by a major media agency Manning Gottlieb OMD who have clients such as Sony and Virgin on its books.

Surely raises some major democratic issues when propoganda like this is being fed into mainstream television without any disclaimer or opposing views,promoting the police and current policing policy,much of which is extremely controversial.

axis45    [26581.   Posted 10-Mar-2010 Wed 14:54] View Near Messages
Yeah you said it.Murder and mayhem abroad but here the citizens of the uk have to be whiter than white in words deeds and even thoughts.Hmm some might say there is a link between extreme puritanism on one hand and dastardly deeds carried out for the most part out of sight.Like one trying to compensate for the other,or deflect attention from the other.

Maybe the moral puritanism and intolerance we are seeing now in the uk is to no smalll extent being fed by a collective guilt over the crimes that have been committed in our name.The demise of individual liberties and the emergence of an increasingly bullying and authoritarian state which is tolerated by the majority of the populus could be a symptom of a collective guilt and self loathing,otherwise why put up with being treated like shit?

Looking at the western democracies its interesting that the countries who have become the most authoritarian and intolerant are the same main protagonists who carried out the genocide in Iraq.UK,US and Australia.
Formly liberal Australia has morphed into the censorship king of the western world whose govt are now so paranoid they are trying to ban the fucking internet.Whats the matter sport? Feeling a bit insecure? Guilty perhaps..? Coincidence? I don`t think so.
Thats why we need war crimes tribunals for Butcher Bliar and Cherie Mcbeth and the rest of his mob.We need to be cleansed as a nation before we can heal.I think it will happen in time,not because people want it but because its hard to see a way forward without it.

thought for the day; Bliar actually believes he is jesus christ.This is partly because that is what people say to him when he tells them what he has done.

axis45    [26575.   Posted 9-Mar-2010 Tue 14:13] View Near Messages
Re Venables

If its true its not surprising that Venables is getting done for child porn considering that he sexually abused and tortured a child.
It dosent take a genuis to work out that Thompson and Venables were themselves brutally abused judging by what they visited on the poor Bulger kid.
It dosent take a degree in psychology to add one and one together to get two.

But why the hysteria? Hysteria is often defined as an irrational loss of self control due to overwhelming fear.I believe its because in this case there is an epidemic of child abuse in the uk that noone wants to talk about because so many are at it.We are onstensibly a child beating,child hating,child abusing country who cannot face the fact of what we are.Travel to almost any country in the world and its hard to find a country where kids are ignored,neglected and villified like in the uk.Even in poor countries like parts of asia their parenting skills and emotional involvement with their kids would put most brits to shame.


Of course what they did was terrible,awful but an appropriate response is terrible sadness,loss and reflections,not those on tv and in the media screaming to hang these boys,they were 10 years old at the time of the offence.

The Daily Mail is a classic case [allegedly] written by child abusers for the [alleged] child abusers of middle england,whose favourite sport is to send their beloved little johnny off to public school so he can get buggered by the games master.Thats why the Mail is so popular here because it panders to the fears and hysteria of [alleged] middle england child abusers always paranoid that they are going to be found out.

The Mail spends so much of the time covering the arses of its readership and causing divertions so others dont pick up the scent.Case in point the Brand/Woss affair where the Mail went fucking ballistic because of the incestual overtones hinted at by the entire Grandfather/Grandaughter Sachsgate debacle.


thought for the day; you know your fucked when orla guerin turns up

axis45    [26563.   Posted 8-Mar-2010 Mon 04:00] View Near Messages
Well well well my favourite rodent David Milipede,foreign secretary,now appearing at the Iraq enquiry,joking and grinning his way through a bunch of half baked pat questions that wouldn`t challenge the intellectual rigour of a child with learning difficulties.
What do u think of this david? What do u think of that? Can we suck ur dick Mr.Miliband? Excrutiating to watch by any standards but worse because the Chilcott enquiry is simply providing a forum for NL war criminals and their apologists to eulogise ad nauseum with regards to the propoganda they spout.
If they are not to be confronted then why bother?



Some of his assertions were so offensive i can barely bring myself to repeat them.

One example is how he grinningly asserts in that unbearably smug and self congratulatory tone that he now wants to see the rule of law in Iraq and not to have issues decided by guns and bullets?? And the UK is now more respected in the region? Yes its true the cunt did actually say that.

He reminds me of a smug posh sixth former at a school debating society,with not even the remotest grasp on his subject and completely removed from the implications of his assertions.Vile odious creature.

I would really like to see cunts like Milipede and all the scum electorate who voted in Blair again in 2005 sent to live with their families in a specially constructed town in rural dartmoor and have the US airforce bomb the shit out the place daily for a few weeks so they can experience how the other half live.

axis45    [26121.   Posted 18-Oct-2009 Sun 08:39] View Near Messages
Dont get me wrong i think what this guy did is clearly wrong,i think he is an idiot.But im talking about the law being used as a tool of vengeance on the hapless or inadequate.The proportionality of the sentence is not a minor detail its everything and is part of a general trend towards crucifying ordinary people for minor offences.
The DPA [3 years for mere possession]and the proposed prostitution laws are aimed at the common man not the major criminals.We dont need to have a debate on the rights and wrongs of this case because most would agree it was clearly reprehensible.The debate is about whether the sentence was just or was it an act of vengeance orchestrated by an increasingly puritanical society.
Life in Britain is becoming cheaper by the day.It will soon be 3 strikes and ur out including minor offences like drug possession while the mighty and the powerful wage war and mass murder with impunity.

Harsh sentences for minor offences is a major warning light to an impending totalitarian state.Its a sign that the state is turning on its people and is asserting a brutal authority over the ordinary person.Sadly it seems that many egged on by the media are more than willing accomplices in this process.

axis45    [26118.   Posted 18-Oct-2009 Sun 04:52] View Near Messages
Winters22
This is great..someone quotes verbatim from the Daily Mail to back up their point.I suppose you would believe every word written.You have been "mailed" my friend,tricked conned and led down exactly the path that has been set out for you by the propogandists at the Mail.
He is painted im sure with many fake references to be an evil scum and drug addict,in Daily Mail parlance it probably means no more than he uses blow from time to time.

Spoon fed good reasons to hate by the Mail you have gone completely overboard and jumped on the hysteria bandwagon and are now happy to overreact in any number of ways.And in the process completely disregard the facts.

Hes an evil scum right so he deserves all he gets..i wonder what u think an appropriate sentence is for this offence..? 18 months not long enough..? hes a sub human scum after all why only 18 months..? why not 5 years..? Hes clearly a danger to society lets lock him up indefinitely..? Would u feel better if he was executed all on the say so of the Daily Mail..? You tell me what is a fair sentence for encouraging a 3 year old to smoke cigarettes..? I`d like to hear it.

The truth is the Daily Mail is far too clever for the likes of you,they know your fears and your prejudices better than you do and are masters at playing to them.They could probably talk you into anything just by pushing the right buttons.

Its fairly standard stuff,paint someone as dangerous and frightening,throw in a few references drug addict is a favourite,and make various subliminal references i.e the neighbours fear him,hes a repeat offender etc etc make him seem less than human and make up whatever u want to that end and bingo u have ur story.
"Evil druggie maniac tortures defenceless child"..sounds better than "Hapless fool gives cigarettes to child"

If this defines evil in ur mind then u have lived a very sheltered life my friend.As IanG points out just by what standards are u defining evil?

Perhaps the thing that annoys me most about these cases is the class warfare aspect where the small guy gets all the shit dumped on him,its the minor criminals,the hapless and the incompetent who always get the most condemnation,thats why i said he would have got less derision if he had done something really bad.If hes wicked and evil for giving cigarettes what adjectives would be used if he had raped and abused her?

Like the NL laws aimed fairly and squarely at the ordinary bods or the minor offenders,the aim is to frighten and control ordinary people so that the real "sick evil bastards,Blair,Straw and Harman can get attention diverted from them.

axis45    [26105.   Posted 15-Oct-2009 Thu 09:08] View Near Messages
Uk`s New Political Prisoners


Its official we now live in Orwellian Gulag uk.

Look what these fucking NL bastards have done to our country.
We truly now live in an age of paranoia and utter hysteria,its disturbing
that the new madness is infecting all aspects of society like a creeping cancer including the judiciary.People are getting labelled dangerous or serious criminals for doing next to fuck all,its happening now folks on our streets.

Some dopey cunt who takes a mobile image of a young child smoking gets 18 fucking months bird-18 months? Wtf,he probably would have got more understanding if he had molested her.The fucking magistrates sent it to crown coz they deemed their sentencing powers insufficient-WTF??? Smoking a fucking cigarette,the judiciary have lost their fucking minds.Sure it was wrong but 18 months? WTF?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/8308946.stm

Some guy is caught selling a few dodgy dvds street value a few hundred quid,some are deemed to be extreme.Some are deemed "vile" by the local rag and no doubt by the Daily Mail and probably legal in most civilised countries by the way,but we are not told what,we just have to trust that they are "vile".The judge says the case is so serious that it crosses the custody threshold-no judge ur fucking brain has crossed the fucking sanity threshold u demented old cunt! He didnt assault abuse or rape anyone nor steal large sums of money...so serious? What is wrong with u?

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/newshome/Man-jailed-for-selling-vile.5685721.jp

And many are getting banged up just for selling a few ordinary porn dvds also.


Since when were people banged up for months for a few hundred quid of dodgy dvds eh? These pathetic cases make these hapless individuals the Uk equivalent of "political prisoners".

Welcome to prison UK where u get banged up for fuck all.

The new rule is surely not "dont do no wrong" but "dont get caught doing no wrong".

axis45    [25909.   Posted 10-Sep-2009 Thu 04:22] View Near Messages
Re Obscene dvds case.

Reading between the lines it appears these 2 guys got off very lightly indeed by virtue of the temporary VRA suspension.5 lorry loads constitutes perhaps money in the millions which would normally attract a sentence of 6 years plus.Instead they got 18 months..not bad.
The obscenity will no doubt be animal sex dvds or of that ilk which they were probably selling while the vast majority were ordinary hardcore.
They couldnt do them under the VRA so were just left with a relatively minor prosecution for obscenity.I bet they were delighted.

axis45    [25494.   Posted 17-Jun-2009 Wed 07:37] View Near Messages
Harvey {25491. Posted 17-Jun-2009 Wed 07:00}

"It might turn out that NCP parking attendant might be aiming a bit high for a future career move."

Yeah your probably right,i was being kind,not wanting him to go cold turkey but have a gradual withdrawal from his "messianic complex" to a lower job where he could still continue to be a prick so not to burst his bubble all at once.A kind of staggered withdrawal,after a short stint at NCP he could move to McDonalds where he could be the cunt who hovers over your table and swipes your tray and food wrappers before you`ve barely finished your food.

axis45    [25490.   Posted 17-Jun-2009 Wed 06:52] View Near Messages
Harvey {25487. Posted 16-Jun-2009 Tue 16:20}

Police Chief Colin Port,what a sanctimonious prick,why is he not in jail for directly disobeying a court order? Anyone else would be.Most coppers think they are above the law and he certainly does.."every time an image is viewed its another assault on a child" except when hes viewing it i suppose,he seems to have a "messianic complex" where he speaks for all victims of abuse and acts accordingly-
Not to mention his abuse of process by launching frivilous investigations to harrass those he dosen`t like.
FUCKING PRICK !!!!! Sack the cunt!! Perhaps he could become a parking attendent for NCP where he can continue to be a prick but cause less damage.

axis45    [25302.   Posted 13-May-2009 Wed 15:23] View Near Messages
i suppose im in the minority by saying i couldnt give a toss about mps fiddling their expenses,a few grand here and there who really cares,you`d think it was hundreds of thousands or even millions being embezzled,everyone in the land has at some times embellished an expenses claim,i certainly have.In the grand scheme of things its nothing in fact i was surprised that they hadnt gotten away with much more than the figures reported.A few grand here and there isn`t exactly the gravy train its purported to be.
I don`t like jumping on bandwagons jus coz its popular,i dont think the MPs deserve to be treated like servants of satan over this minor non issue.

Perhaps noone would care if we werent in a deep recession but suddenly everyone is looking for scapegoats.Are the public really rife with outrage over this,we are told they are-like its a given but im not.

There are many good reasons why i`d like to hang Westminister politicians and a few expenses is the least of them.i`m not outright defending it just saying that its been way overblown and its interesting to watch this rather odd feeding frenzy by the media when you think of some of the other crimes majeures.Tormenting Jacqui Smith over her porn videos is a bit like lambasting fleeing war criminals in the former Yugoslav republic for driving with a faulty light.Perhaps god does move in mysterious ways.You could say some chickens are coming home to roost.Labour ministers have spent the last few years fanning the flames of moral outrage,bringing in nasty oppressive mean spirited laws that dole out draconion punishments for minor offences.In the process whipping up fear and hysteria to further their own agenda.

Perhaps this is only the beginning,how about every Westminster MP being forced to hand over all computer hard drives that they and their families own,each drive could be forensically examined for subversive or illegal content,hard core bondage,farmyard sex etc and see how many 3 year sentences we can get get dished out?

Welcome to the new nasty puritanical Uk ministers !!

You should recognise it,you created it.

axis45    [25249.   Posted 29-Apr-2009 Wed 15:23] View Near Messages
phantom {25247.

Its true that there are many people being convicted of serious crimes on no real evidence.In serious crimes the police are "allegedly" under pressure to get a result and people are "fitted up" to take the fall.Like the cases you mentioned and that bloke who was done for murder coz he was supposedly heard whispering a confession thru a cell wall by another lag next door,you couldn`t make it up.
A well connected london solicitor told me in recent conversation that the uk police dont really have the resources to properly investigate serious crime and often dont bother,"allegedly" they sometimes decide who they think is the guilty party and then set about planting evidence or if they are under enough pressure "frame" someone to take the rap who they know to be innocent.
I think we can agree that the police and govt cant be trusted,a fact which is becoming generally accepted in the wider population which takes us to the crux of the this particular problem which is the Judiciary.
They are the last line of defence against these kind of human rights abuses and they are failing !!!!
They are allowing this to happen and it would seem they are the only authority who can stop this,have they been infiltrated or at least subject to political pressures and outside interests? There is something wrong with the judicial process that allows these cases to proceed,whether its because of insufficient powers to halt such cases or whether judges are simply not enforcing their own rules effectively i don`t know.We need to focus and petition the machinery of the judiciary to prevent these abuses and hold govt and police to account.This is clearly an important battle line and its an issue that as far as i can see has had no publicity.
Judges have to be independent and empowered to refuse cases were there is insufficient or frivilous evidence presented.
Perhaps its no coincidence that the scum govt have been handing out draconion powers to the police while cutting legal aid and the rights to trial by jury.Its the judiciary who need more sweeping powers to maintain their independence and protect them from political interference but who will give them it?

axis45    [25246.   Posted 29-Apr-2009 Wed 05:01] View Near Messages
Yes i agree that politically motivated prosecutions are nothing new,its often the case that authorities will invoke the letter of the law to target hapless punters where its expedient to do so,rather than the spirit of the law when it was originally drawn up.
But i think there is a difference here with regards the case of the 7/7 accused and others also.
Bringing forward a mean spirited or dishonourable prosecution is one thing but here we are talking about a "prosecution without evidence" which is a quite different thing and brings our legal establishments into disrepute.
These cases dont just involve dubious evidence,there is no evidence whatsoever.There were no incriminating conversations,no pc records of plans,no admissions of guilt or incriminating statements.This case was brought before a jury without evidence but purely on the belief that these people were guilty.This is more akin to 17th century witch hunts were accusations alone were enough to condemn.Its a very serious development.
I`m not surprised at the deceptions of govt and the police but i am very concerned when the judiciary appear to collude with these fake prosecutions.
Why was this not thrown out by a judge beforehand? What are these people doing hearing cases without evidence and allowing citizens to be held on remand purely on the basis of suspicion? The main evidence presented to the jury was a tourist trip around London months before the bombings where the suspects took photos of tourist attractions.The judiciary should not and cannot allow this type of thing in future,it brings into question whether they are really independent or just an extention of the state.

There were similar cases in the US in the early dark days of the Bush administration were muslims were brought to trial on the basis of trips to Disneyland and taking holiday snaps.

The gradual erosion of our great institutions in this manner is a grave threat to our democracy or another symptom of a country in decline.

axis45    [25244.   Posted 28-Apr-2009 Tue 07:11] View Near Messages
phantom [25243]

Yes Phantom but surely there has to be a legal procedure and test before these cases are brought? The Crown Prosecution Service must have guidelines to follow and certain criteria must be met before they fund an expensive prosecution.If they are completely dominated and run for political ends then they are waging a war on our democracy and stand in direct opposition to human rights and natural justice.
These defendents were remanded in custody for a considerable time and no doubts have had their lives turned upside down over the past 2 years while awaiting what they feared would be a possible life sentence in prison.
The independent judiciary has only the final say in some respects as it can be years before individuals come face to face with an actual jury.
In this regard great power is weilded by the CPS over individual freedoms,they cannot be allowed to persecute citizens for purely political ends where no evidence exists of wrong doing.

In this regard the CPS are making a fucking mockery of our legal system by pursuing personal vendettas against private citizens and getting away with it.

axis45    [25242.   Posted 28-Apr-2009 Tue 05:31] View Near Messages
ttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7507842.stm

Who the hell are the fucking cunts who allow these prosecutions to go ahead with no fucking evidence?

Waheed Ali, 25, Sadeer Saleem, 28, and Mohammed Shakil, 32, were all sent for trial for helping to plot the 7/7 bombings in London and cleared.

These defendents were tried on the basis of a fucking trip to the fucking london eye 7 months before and the fact they knew the bombers-

Well fuck me case closed !!!

How can the fact that a group of friends are wandering around London in the months before the bombing be put before a fucking jury as evidence of planning a terrorist attack?? HOW ??? TELL ME??

Fuck to hell these lowlife police and prosecutors who allow purely politically motivated prosecutions with absolutely NO evidence WHATSOEVER !!!

fUCK THESE bASTARDS TO HELL !!!!!!!!

sorry about the language but i cant be civil when describing the sub human behaviour of these prosecuting authorities in our UK.


I suppose this fucking post will be enough evidence to get me sent for trial also ??


On not a lighter note its amusing that Jaqui Smith is getting shafted by the media over a few porn movies...who the fuck cares ????
Still i`ll take any stick offered and gratefully ram it up the arse of that satanic bitch! Fascinating to see the media get so excited about a few pounds of fiddled expenses when maas murder abroad and grotesque human rights violations can go hang !!

Whatever....

axis45    [24727.   Posted 10-Feb-2009 Tue 13:48] View Near Messages
Janus [24726]
From how i read it,if the new law and "controlled for gain" is to be based on the R v Massey case,then its a fairly straightforward definition which clearly involves coercion and compulsion,where the girl is being pimped by another person who clearly has a strong influence on what she does.This needn`t include violence or direct intimidation but it might do.
On the positive side it would not include girls who work in a cooperative,share the rent,have maids,hire drivers or security,unless these people were also involved in "compelling" her to work.Likewise girls who work for an agency should be ok providing they were free to come and go and werent working under any kind of duress.
On the negative side with "strict liability" there is no way of knowing for sure if you are breaking the law or not,a lady may appear happy,she may be happy to be controlled,some are,part of her job is to appear happy to the client so you can never know unless you were to follow her around 24 hours a day and tap her phone calls.

axis45    [24721.   Posted 10-Feb-2009 Tue 12:02] View Near Messages
IanG [24717]
Yes,you have to look at the overall pattern to see where its all heading,the odd slip could be excused but when you have rafts of heavy handed puritanical edicts being handed down there is only really one conclusion you can come to.

Harvey [24716]Re Chakrabarti

"She did not go as far as to support the clause, as it stands, but on the other hand the criticism only went as far as suggesting it was a difficulty in the context of a sexual offence."

I think you have been a little over generous with yourself here,you stated that she supported "strict liability" when she was clearly opposed.There is no grey area here.Her use of the words "having difficulty" is polite commons committee speak for saying she was opposed.

The point about whether govt are influenced by public opinion is an interesting one,clearly they are to a point and have backed down on certain issues,however there was mass opposition to the Iraq war and that didn`t stop Blair,but then he is certifiably insane.
Public support and public opinion are not the same thing,there is no widespread public outcry demanding a crackdown on prostitution or people demonstrating about the lack of ID cards,baying mobs don`t scream for more mass surveilance or bitterly complain about having to much freedom on the internet.The people pushing thru these policies are the ministers themselves and their bands of self appointed interest groups.
It seems clear they do not have public support for the great changes they are making to the structure of our democracy,most of it is done by stealth,without much fanfare and behind closed doors.
Public opinion and backlash against certain issues do slow them down but hasn`t really done much to alter their course.They just go back behind closed doors and start plotting new methods to achieve their goals.

On "controlled for gain",thanks for the link,are you saying that in its current form the new proposals are to reflect the same definition as in the R v Massey case,whereby maids and drivers will not be in the frame for prosecution.And what about agencies who arrange bookings for girls? Where there is no element of compulsion or coercion but they take a cut of the earnings?

axis45    [24714.   Posted 10-Feb-2009 Tue 03:47] View Near Messages
Harvey [24710]

"(e.g.Chakrabarti, giving evidence to the committee) who have suggested that strict liability is acceptable, given that the penalty is not severe."

I think you have misquoted Ms.Chakrabarti,she clearly does NOT support strict liability in this case.

Below are the actual quotes...

"Strict liability offences are best—and traditionally—suited to minor regulatory matters." [i.e not the case in question]

"Strict liability is a difficult device in the context of sex offences."

Giving evidence to committee 29th January 2009 [Policing and Crime Bill]



Vernon Coaker also said the following...

"that “controlled for gain” as defined in case law means what one would regard as the common-sense definition. It would not be where somebody is helping somebody else: organising, protecting, looking after them and so on. I am not a lawyer; that is the legal advice that I have had."

The definition of "controlled for gain" is the crucial part of the P4P legislation as that sets out how girls can work freely and with support networks in place.Furthermore the definition is critical in how it relates to the "strict liability" clause,if controlled for gain relates to all involved in aiding and abetting and not just the pimps or traffickers then "strict liability" also falls under the wide catch all definition.

Croaker seems to be saying it won`t affect those helping and supporting but there are already reports of receptionists and maids in Soho being harrassed.This has to be strictly defined.

Interestingly if Croaker is now saying the "control for gain" refers only to pimps and traffickers then why bring in a new law? Trafficking is already illegal as is "controlling prostitutes for gain".

axis45    [24652.   Posted 5-Feb-2009 Thu 09:25] View Near Messages
"The life of invertebrates"-update

Chief govt Insect David Milipede has made a statement in the commons today defending the uk govts position in the Binyam Mohamed case and the issuing of a public interest immunity certificate on the basis of "national security".

The judges have said there is nothing in the document that threatens national security,no naming of sources or locations for example.
Of course its clear to everyone that the threat to uk national security comes from the US threat to withdraw cooperation not from whats in the court documents.

It was good to watch Milipede squirming and squinting and attempting to put a full gloss on a turd and by goodness he didn`t half try,flanked on both sides by the NL she-devils Harman and Smith [who always manages to look like an angry nanny on the verge of tears]. If forked tongue mutterings were an olympic sport Milipede would be a gold medal favourite in 2012.

His best quote is probably "it`s not the content of the paragraphs that are important but the nature".

The contents aren`t important? WTF?

He is admitting that issues of public interest,illegality and outright criminal behaviour do not matter when the document in question is deemed to be "confidential" by the United States.No matter what the circumstances,if its deemed "national security" by the US thats the end of the matter.Even if our own judges of Appeal deem that there is no threat to national security.End of.

That angry nanny Jacqui Smith looked like she was going to fucking explode with indignation when the Lib Dem spokesman accused the govt of attempting to cover up the situation,she seems to see anyone who tries to hold the govt to account for its crimes as "absolutely impertinent".Its gonna be a long way down when the bells toll for this one.In ten years time she`ll probably be making a living by performing scat on a webcam from a sordid basement flat,and selling her soiled underwear on ebay for a fiver a go.

Milipede concluded his defence of the indefensible by categorically stating that under no circumstances does the uk govt ever condone,cooperate,or authorise the use of torture.Note that the present tense,not the past tense is used.Perhaps he means not since recently when he realised the whole gaffe was gonna be blown and they would all likely be facing war crimes tribunals.

axis45    [24627.   Posted 3-Feb-2009 Tue 09:01] View Near Messages
Re Phantom [24625]

Yes intimidation is the correct word exactly,and not intimidation of criminals or dangerous individuals but ordinary "common or garden" citizens of the UK.
The P4P debate throws up the same situation,there is no carefully framed legislation giving support to vulnerable women or resources to tackle trafficking instead this "legislative atrocity" is aimed fairly and squarely at ordinary working girls and their punters.They are the ones who will face the music when the new rules come in,punters will be in fear of seeing any girl in case they may be trafficked or be working for a pimp and the girls will be forced to work alone without the usual support network of agency staff,maids,friends or drivers and so will be much more vulnerable to "dangerous" punters than they ever were before.Its argued that there will be very little enforcement and senior police officers have said the strict liability clause is unworkable but thats exactly the point.Its not supposed to be workable,its aim is to spread fear and disaray,in short it is specially designed to "intimidate".
Make no mistake many vulnerable women will die at the hands of Jacqui Smith`s and HH`s actions,the very women they are said to be protecting.

Yes the DPA,like the P4P legislation is a rancid turd,squeezed from the diseased bowels of the NL project.Brown is a big disappointment to put it mildly,i hoped he would be better than Blair but many of our worst fears have been confirmed tenfold,hes a gutless puritanical empty scrotum bag. Bring me my fucking cheque please NL..then get out !!

axis45    [24500.   Posted 25-Jan-2009 Sun 19:03] View Near Messages
Yep i think the game is now up for General "Gordini".The mask is slipping,him and captain Darling are starting to look like the amateur punters they really are.After the huge failure of the initial cash injection into the banks in November they are looking visibly shaken in public appearances and have lost credibility with the general public.Importantly because in November they both gave solid assurances and judgements that have since turned out to be worthless.They now appear to be moving their positions on a daily basis and as such their cred is shot to fuck.Game over.Clouds and silver linings,if bankrupting the entire economy is what it takes to remove the NL infestation so be it.We live in strange times..

axis45    [24391.   Posted 15-Jan-2009 Thu 16:32] View Near Messages
"we must uphold our commitments to human rights and civil liberties both at home and abroad."

these words spoken by that cockroache David Millipede at a press conference in Mumbai today.From the people who brought you the war on terror,genocide in Iraq,guantanamo bay,torture,extraordinary renditions,incarceration without trial and mass surveillance to name but a few highlights.Perhaps it was an attempt at stand up comedy or maybe he`s just a cunt..? You decide.

Janus17 wrote..
"Moving on, I`ve just had a brilliant idea which could just help kick start the economy - British manufactured Harriet Harman dartboards. I doubt there`s a working men`s club in the country that wouldn`t order one!"

How about moving it up a notch and having Harmen,Smith and Millipede`s faces embossed onto the inside of urinals in public toilets or at home..?

axis45    [24389.   Posted 15-Jan-2009 Thu 15:46] View Near Messages
Yes the NL infestation,thats what it is friend,a disease pox ridden pile of murdering lying filth.The mood music on the war on terror is changing for one reason only,next week an actual decent human being takes over in the White House and i believe it will be "all change".
For this reason the instinct of adapt and survive is kicking in as Millipede and co prepare to ditch their previously deeply held convictions,wiping the last traces of Dubya`s rancid nazi spunk from their eager little chins and getting ready to suck the cock of their new leader and master Mr.Obama.Similarly we see the Israeli war machine murdering as many civilians as possible in Gaza before the new administration takes over.Its like supermarket sweep,fill your boots while you can before the clock runs out.Filthy animal scum.
Now on a lighter note...

axis45    [24381.   Posted 15-Jan-2009 Thu 13:13] View Near Messages
Just watched David Milliband on channel 4 news being interviewed by Jon Snow,these fucking lowlife murdering scum who helped perpetrate the war on terror have now conceded that its a bad idea.
Well Jon Snow said "a lot of people said that from the very beginning" Milipede replied "well theres been a definite learning process" at that point i had to switch off and thought i was going to be physically sick.
That fucking bastard !!! This cunt voted for the Neocon project that ended in mass slaughter and voted strongly against an investigation into the Iraq war.
I hope this fucking cunt burns in hell,that him and his NL bastards all die fucking prolonged painful deaths and i hope their family and children suffer the same fucking fate.BAstards !!
These ghouls of NL are the lowest of the lowest of the low.
Sent in Rentokil to exterminate these fucking insects in government.

Sorry did i just go too far there..?

axis45    [24172.   Posted 21-Dec-2008 Sun 14:07] View Near Messages
"In the true tradition of inspired hypocrisy who better to lead a moral crusade than the vicious "war criminals" of New Labour"

Perhaps their moral fervour is driven by guilt?

re P4P

We need a reality check here,no punters will be prosecuted under the "controlled for gain" rules,unless there is clear evidence that clients knew beforehand that a lady was being controlled by another.

Its an empty threat and legally untenable.

You can`t hold someone legally responsible for a "legal act" if the illegal aspect is reasonably outwith their knowledge and certainly their control,this crap will get nowere near a court-END OF ARGUMENT.

If this was so then anyone could be found guilty of anything even if they knew nothing about it.

Which is a shame in some respects because if a new legal paradigm was created whereby people could be prosecuted without knowledge or control of their crimes it would set an interesting precedent, for example the labour war criminals and their invasion of Iraq...i can just hear Jacqui Smith,Blair et al on trial at the Hague wimpering.."well we thought Saddam had weapons of mass destruction"...sorry ignorance no excuse-GUILTY on all counts.

Anyways for what its worth Ms.Smith,i urinate and defecate on your legislation.

axis45    [24073.   Posted 14-Dec-2008 Sun 16:22] View Near Messages
BOD [24071. Posted 14-Dec-2008 Sun 14:10]
Wow,chill the f*** out friend ! Its "meltdown" nite on Melon Farmers !
This is what living in NL`s police state can do to you,you start to imagine all sorts of things are happening.Often they are.
Did you say you were being investigated over the VRA?
Don`t get too stressed we might be the same side.
My criticism was that much of your postings are contradictory,that you seem to change your mind a lot,railing against oppressive measures then making rash statements that suggest the opposite.Think it thru then post,hold that rage and make sure you use it in the right way.
Its true that many brits are "spineless" with regards to these issues of liberty but its a problem we haven`t had to face before,civil unrest may not be as far away as you think though,certainly if your post tonight is anything to go by.
"Alert" BOD is being "RADICALISED" by NL.

axis45    [24070.   Posted 14-Dec-2008 Sun 13:56] View Near Messages
BOD [24064. Posted 13-Dec-2008 Sat 17:45]
"What sort of a stupid remark was that?"

If your referring to my comment then the stupid remark refers to the fact this service provider doesn`t store data of individuals surfing habits so if plod did suspect anyone they`d be hard pressed to gather evidence wouldn`t they.

Not necessarily indecent material it could be terror related, I used pedo as an example because this is the current topic of discussion.
I can` understand why people keep on reading something into to my posts which isn`t there, perhaps you`ll be big enough to apologise now for jumping to forgone conclusions."

Maybe you should be apologising for the "manure" you`ve been posting.lol.

axis45    [23900.   Posted 6-Dec-2008 Sat 07:09] View Near Messages
freeworld [23899. Posted 6-Dec-2008 Sat 06:52]
Yes strange times indeed when you find yourself cheering for The Daily Mail,though i suspect their motives are less than 100% pure it has been heartening to see some of their recent headlines,and recent events have pushed liberty issues to the top of the political agenda.
Seeing Jacqui Smith on national news re the Green affair saying "we`re not Stalinist" was quite something,just to hear her say those words.

As for Blair...don`t get me started,i have many interesting theories about him and the beginning of the end of our democracy.
Cherie Blair,now theres a subject,how? Just how does this human rights lawyer crawl into bed each night and cuddle up all smug with one of the biggest monsters of the past hundred years.How does she sleep? Does she have nightmares,does she have visions of dead babies and little hands and feet blown hundreds of yards across neighbourhoods in some foriegn land,the rivers of blood,what kind of psychological defence systems are at play in the mind of this women that allows her to crow bar the calamitous contradictions in her life together and allow her to carry on as if everything is normal,shes quite a gal methinks.

axis45    [23898.   Posted 6-Dec-2008 Sat 06:36] View Near Messages
It seems a tidal wave of lies and misinformation is being spouted round the clock on all forms of media following the ECHR ruling on retention of dna.
All designed to pour derision on the ruling and to form public opinion against this fundamentally correct and reasonable ruling.
The tragic SallyAnn Bowman case is in every newspaper and her father has appeared on channel 4 news,describing the courts` decision as "diabolical" even when it was pointed out by Hugh Whittall from the highly respected Nuffield Council on Bioethics that it would have had no bearing on that particular case as dna matches with unsolved crimes could still be made at the time of arrest.In other words the Bowman case had nothing to do with long term retention of samples.Yet this case has been repeated in profile in virtually every newspaper completely misleading the readers.
The dodgy home office statistics have also been published ad nauseum which infer that thousands of serious crimes have been solved by the retention of samples from those where charges were subsequently dropped,again totally false,a closer look reveals that dna was not the primary factor in many convictions and that those who were subsequently rearrested "and charged" were also included in the figures,etc etc etc lies lies lies,in fact of the serious crimes solved primarily by dna quoted by police hardly any were due to the retention from uncharged suspects.
The ECHR does not even dispute the retention of samples for a period of time for those arrested in regard to violent or sexual offences,it merely states that the retention policy must be "fair and proportionate" as in the scottish model.
If you read the blogs many people are quoting the Bowman case or the Home Office statistics to make strong arguments against the ECHR ruling.
It worries me a great deal that people reading the Times or the Sun or listening to BBC news are forming their opinions from tissues of lies and distorted propoganda.

axis45    [23895.   Posted 6-Dec-2008 Sat 04:45] View Near Messages
So it seems the Damien Green affair has given parliament a taste of what the rest of the country have increasingly had to suffer for years,police and armies of other little bastards roaming our streets with almost limitless powers of stop and search.The police can get a warrant to enter any premises on the flimsiest of evidence or suspicion,magistrates are a blank cheque,none of them have any training or balls to refuse a police request,they just roll over every time.
The police in sussex ransacked my flat last year on an unsubstantiated allegation from one person of a theft of an item valued at £10.
They have unlimited powers and are not required to justify themselves.
The dogs have been let loose and are now biting their masters,too fucking bad !!!
I look forward to many more police raids on parliament and if they change the rules we want them changed for us too Smith you fucking monster.

axis45    [23661.   Posted 11-Nov-2008 Tue 16:03] View Near Messages
How do people feel about switching on their tv and being openly threatened with fines and imprisonment by some branch of govt machinery.
I just watched an an ad on channel 5 from the DWP [dept of work and pensions] with scarey music that openly makes threats to me if i was to be claiming any state benefit that i shouldn`t.We will trace you! Theres no escape from us! etc etc.
Now as i understand it the govt are elected by me to represent my interests,i pay their wages and own all the premises where they carry out their business.
Don`t people think its slightly impertinent to say the least to have your own lackeys threaten you directly in your own home,what gives these imbeciles the right to do this? If you were the boss of a factory how would you feel if the guy who made the tea rang you up at home and threatened you in front of your wife and kids????
I`m not on any benefits as it happens but i still felt intimidated by this advertisment.What about an old person who maybe slightly confused,walks into their living room with the tv on and hears "we are watching you" "you can`t escape from us" etc etc yours sincerely the uk govt.When did it become acceptable to do this? Does this happen in other countries?
It happens on all sorts of issues like tv licence and others,"we are watching you" you can`t get away".How dare these minions address citizens of the UK in this manner,i thought making threats was illegal?

axis45    [23578.   Posted 30-Oct-2008 Thu 01:54] View Near Messages
Well for a warrior of free speech you seem to be very easily upset and offended,we are all licence payers my friend and not all share your rather puritan aversion to adult humour so if its all the same to you we would like to have our tastes catered for as well.Your list of crimes against Woss are slightly pathetic,i mean can`t you just say that its not for you instead of wanting him taken off the airways.What a delicate palate you have,even gentle risque jokes about Thatcher get you all steamed up.It seems that your overly sensitive and extreme reactions to sexually orientated references from Brand and Ross will chime with many as typical from those who are very much opposed to freedom of speech.Brand is a huge talent and its sad you don`t see this but like many you are blinded by your over extreme visceral reaction to sexual references which obviously threaten you at some level. The utter hysteria over this subject is about SEX,and how the repressed brits just can`t cope with it,Brand and Ross push the boundaries on sex and thats why they are hated and feared by many,attempts to label them as louts and shock jocks willing to do anything for a laugh are patently ludicrous,its pathetic reading the poisoned bile being thrown at them,Piers Morgan writing in the Daily Mail of all places writes reams of sanctimonious slime about vegeterian and ardent anti-racist Brand being like the worst kind of Bernhard Manning.Woss hardly goes around mooning out of cars does he? Or dropping his trousers every 5 minutes,its pathetic,i`m afraid the attempt to paint Brand and mild mannered middle aged Ross in particular as lager louts from Jackass tv just shows desperation. Sachs did consent to the interview but wasn`t there when contacted at the anointed time and he did not "initially" complain about it being broadcast so get that straight.
Sachs has played a blinder here,not so much what he has said more what he hasn`t,he was happy to keep schtum as the hysteria gathered and act all innocent while the daughter was gleefully calling for crucifixion,methinks theres more to those two than meets the eye and its the subtext to all this that is the driving force behind the hysteria non?

axis45    [23571.   Posted 29-Oct-2008 Wed 17:03] View Near Messages
Russell Brand gets Sached-
That sanctimonius little twerp Sachs has got Russell Brand sacked for making a song and dance over nothing,he was never at any time insulted as the lying media have said,nor was it a "prank" call it was a prearranged call with his agreement.It was pure embarrassment that got that uppity little twat all hot and bothered,his strumpet of a daughter got jumped by Brand and now they are so ashamed.I saw her interview on tv and she seems right up herself.Fuck them both-wankers !!!